St. Matthew Passion

Heikki Antila wrote (February 25, 1999):
I will follow my yearly tradition of springing for some new Bach CD's as a birthday present for myself - and the early Easter suggests trying a new St. Matthew Passion, preferably HIP. I already have Herreweghe's 1985 recording, as well as Karl Münchinger. Any suggestions?

My all time favourite is the 1958 version by Karl Richter and Munich Bach Choir and Orchestra. I have received a vinyl version of it for Christmas present for over twenty-five years ago and it is still my favorite recording of any of Bach's works. It may not be the St. Matthew for purists, but Richter has eye (or ear) for dramatic nuances as well as a group of astonishing vocal soloists. Dear old Ernst Haefliger is almost impossible to beat as Evangelist (OK, Kurt Equiluz is almost as good, in some passages a trifle better). I know, that Hertha Tצpper has been accused of too "operatic" approach with possibly too much vibrato in her voice, but I still can not listen "Erbarme dich, Mein Gott", without having a couple of tears in my eyes. Kieth Engen, with his rather shaky bass-baritone is a convincing Jesus. A beautiful recording, which has traveled well throughout the decades. Even according to present standards, the sound quality is very, very good, almost impossible to hear the diffence between that forty year old recording and present digital versions.

You should not, however, get mixed up with Richter's second Archive version dating back to mid 1970's. I have tried several times to listen to it through without success. It is absolutely boring compared with the previous recording. Richter has never been a man with fast tempi, but in this recording they are (e.g. in the opening chorus) almost agonizingly slow. Peter Schreier has undeniably his benefits, but I find his high, lyric, rather nasal tenor, quite inappropriate for the part. Furthermore, I have difficulties to accept harpsichord as a continuo instrument for this particular work (and for all Bach's sacred works, for that matter).

Robert Sherman wrote (February 26, 1999):
< Ehud wrote, regarding the Richter St. Matt: outstanding soloists - including Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Herta Töpper, in Richter's. And, not to forget, a powerfull Ernst Haefliger as evangelist! >
Very true. Haefliger sings the evangelist roles with effortless technique and meticulous meaning I've not heard elsewhere. It's odd that he nevertheless has near-zero recognition other than as "Richter's tenor." Compare Haefliger's St. John evangelist with Wunderlich (on Odeon). Wunderlich was a fine singer with wide reputation, yet on the St. John, Haefliger lives in a world of color and deWunderlich can't begin to imagine.

Töpper, also, seems virtually unknown except as "Richter's alto." But her Bach singing moves me as no other alto can. Listen, particularly, to "Es Ist Vollbracht" in the St. John. She sings the mournful dotted-eighth-and-sixteenth rhythms as if they are the most meaningful thing in her life, and gamba-ist Oswald Uhl matches her perfectly. Compared to this, all other "Vollbrachts" sound to me as if the performers
are thinking about something else.

Richter's 1958 St Matthew Passion

Peter Bright wrote (November 26, 2000):
Yesterday, I picked up Richter's SMP to add to my versions by Klemperer, Oberfrank, Gardiner, Herreweghe (later version) and Suzuki. I was wondering what others in the list think of this famous recording. While, in general, I prefer HIP recordings of Bach's vocal works (particularly Suzuki, Herreweghe and Junghanel), I have still not heard a version of the SMP that comes close to the devastating majesty of the Klemperer. I would be particularly interested in the opinions of those (whose ears still remain open to large forces and modern instrumentation in Bach) who have heard both Klemperer and Richter's earlier recordings - which of the two do they prefer? Although I have only heard the Richter once, I was particularly impressed with Fischer-Dieskau performance - particularly the magnificent "Mache dich, mein Herze rein" aria.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (November 26, 2000):
(To Peter Bright) There is an interesting review of the SMP HIP and "Classical Performances" on this web page devoted to the bass baritone Quastoff (posted on another list): There is a very nice web page about him at http://www.gopera.com/quasthoff/

Personally, I got rid of my Richter Matthäus and Johannes Passionen many decades ago. I keep the Klemperer. Richter was certainly a major and important conductor and organist. His Bach just tends to bore me. For me there is room indeed for "Classical Performances" of Bach in addition to excellent HIPs.

Peter Bright wrote (November 26, 2000):
I find it interesting that Masaaki Suzuki, in my opinion the finest Bach conductor of the moment, also enjoys the older, 'uninformed' conductors such as Richter. In an interview for The Independent newspaper, he gives his own opinions on "authenticity":

"A clear advantage of Suzuki's broad outlook is a non-dogmatic attitude towards authenticity in music that is not always found in baroque specialists. The BCJ plays period instruments and typically has 20 players and 16 in the choir, but later this year Suzuki will conduct Mendelssohn's version of the St Matthew Passion for a much larger ensemble playing modern instruments."

"I think we should define the word authenticity," says Suzuki. "According to one opinion, Helmuth Rilling and Karl Richter were not authentic. Of course they didn't use period instruments, but they were together with the mind and spirit of Bach. I have played with Rilling's orchestra. The way of playing is very different, but it has insight. And when I was at school I listened to the Richter B Minor Mass a thousand times. I have no contradiction in me in enjoying both types.""

The other interesting anomaly between the Bach-recordings subscribers and the general classical music reviewers out there is that the reviewers seem, more often than not, to choose Richter's or Klemperer's recordings of the SMP as the finest out there (at least that is what I found while trawling the web). I very much doubt that this would be the consensus among subscribers here. Perhaps we are generally more educated in Bach work here and therefore appreciate HIP performances of the Passion to a greater extent.

I remember that, at the end of last year, a classical music magazine (not a particularly good one, mind you - possibly "Classical CD") voted Richter's SMP as the single greatest recording of any music of all time. With respect to alternative versions of the SMP, Gramophone Magazine (in the review of Suzuki) declared:

"…with so many releases in the last 10 years, it is frustrating that I must pick out Richter's 1958 version - stylistic warts and all - to find myself overwhelmed and transported to the final resolution."

Anyway, I'll stop my rambling now.

Matthew Westphal wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Peter Bright) Remember also that, a few months ago, when the New York Times asked several eminent musicians about their favorite Bach recordings, almost all chose recordings from the Richter era.

Almost all of the musicians the Times chose to ask qualified as "eminences grises." Similarly, I'm guessing that most of the critics Peter is coming across either (a) are older on average than most of the people who take part in Internet discussion groups; (b) discovered and became obsessed with classical music (including Bach) at a younger age than most of us (which is why they became critics); or (c) both of the above.

My point is that a person naturally tends to choose as the greatest rendition of a musical work (or even an entire genre) the performance or recording that first made that person fall in love with that work. I think that, basically, most of the critics Peter has found are alte kockers (Yiddish for old f**ts) still attached, at least sentimentally, to the Richter style they grew up with.

There's a changing of generations happening, but slowly.

Philip Peters wrote (November 27, 2000):
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< There is an interesting review of the SMP HIP and "Classical Performances" on this web page devoted to the bass baritone Quastoff (posted on another list): There is a very nice web page about him at http://www.gopera.com/quasthoff/
Personally, I got rid of my Richter Matthäus and Johannes Passionen many decades ago. I keep the Klemperer. Richter was certainly a major and important conductor and organist. His Bach just tends to bore me. For me there is room indeed for "Classical Performances" of Bach in addition to excellent HIPs. >
I feel the Klemperer is probably the most majestic of all SMP's I know and I certainly wouldn't want to be without it. But this also goes for Richter whose Bach does not bore me. Moreover he always employed great singers like Haefliger, Mathis, Dieskau etc. Quasthoff alone is a reason to keep the second Rilling too. And there are plenty more that I treasure for this reason, any Bach with Agnes Giebel in it will find a very warm welcome on my shelves....

Lately I experience a revival of interest in older Bach recordings, conditioned by HIP as I had become (with, as SMP's go, the second Herreweghe as the summit of contemporary vocal Bach performances). It is great to be able to appreciate the earlier efforts again and acquire some OOP recodings of the cantatas.

Kris Shapar wrote (November 27, 2000):
Philip Peters wrote:
< I feel the Klemperer is probably the most majestic of all SMP's I know and I certainly wouldn't want to be without it. But this also goes for Richter whose Bach does not bore me. Moreover he always employed great singers like Haefliger, Mathis, Dieskau etc. >
I remember hearing an interview a couple decades ago with someone who sang with Richter who said that he inspired his singers to sing extraordinarily well, better than for any other conductor. Colin Davis has also been spoken of like this, for that matter.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Matthew Westphal) I have to disagree with Matthew W. on his premise that persons remain attach to the performance they grew up with. I also offer myself as an example of one who is probably much older that what he deems as the generation who takes part in internet discussions.

I "grew up" on the Klemperer and the Richter recordings. But in 1968 (32 years ago), a friend pointed out the Gillesberger-Harnoncourt recording (Telefunken LPs, 5 sides) of the Johannes Passion. His words in mentioning this recording to me were: You will never listen to the Richter (of the Johannes Passion) again. At that time, this recording was temporarily unavailable. I travelled several hours on bus to get it at a place he tolme about. This was, obviously before online shopping.

I went mad about this recording. The anonymous boy soprano from the Vienna Boys Choir who sang "Es ist vollbracht" remains for me unequalled.

Years later when I got the Harnoncourt of the Matthäus Passion, I found there was nothing there. Unfortunately in the Matthäus Passion Harnoncourt has a boy who simply is more than inadequate to sing the soprano arias. As the saying has it: Ex nihilo nihil fit (roughly, If your put in nothing, nothing comes out).

More recently a friend who is a baroque musician tells me that the instrument tuning (pitch) on the mentioned Johannes Passion is wrong. Yet, I love it and the many other more recent HIP I've heard of it do not do for me what that recording still does for me.

Robert Sherman wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Peter Bright) I am very high on this recording, and deeply regret that Borders now lists it as "hard to find, unavailable." I know of no other SMP that is as gratifying. I find Klemperer too heavy and romantic and the HIP recordings too dry and thin. Listen, for example, to the beauty, intensity, and intelligence of Richter's climactic chorus "Wahrlich". (and if you're a singer, try to match its sustained long phrase. I can't.)

I'm equally enthusiastic about Richter's SJP. I still find nothing to approach it (although there are many sopranos I would gladly substitute for Evelyn Lear). Häfliger's Evangelist is supremely insightful, Hertha Töpper's "Es Ist Vollbracht" is the most musical I've ever heard, etc. and etc.

In both recordings, the whole is far greater than the sum of their excellent parts.

Kirk McElhearn wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Peter Bright) I have the feeling that this is because Richter or others are on major labels, have seniority, and are generally easier to find. Suzuki, for example, is on a much smaller label, and many HIP musicians are as well.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Kirk McElhearn) I have not previously heard of the Suzuki and of several of the other HIP performances mentioned today. I do have the two Herreweghe recordings and have to admit that I find them less than thrilling (I similarly find a lot of Herreweghe thus). Any information on labels, etc. for the Suzuki and any other good "minor labels" HIPs will be greatly appreciated.

Kirk McElhearn wrote (November 27, 2000):
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< I have not previously heard of the Suzuki and of several of the other HIP performances mentioned today. I do have the two Herreweghe recordings and have to admit that I find them less than thrilling (I similarly find a lot of Herreweghe thus). Any information on labels, etc. for the Suzuki and any other good "minor labels" HIPs will be greatly appreciated. >
Suzuki records for a smallish Swedish label, BIS, and has recorded many cantatas, as well as the St John and St Matthew passions for them. The St. John is widely considered to be one of the best available recordings; the St Matt is more controversial. I have it and love it. Others do as well, but some people feel it is not as good as, say, Herreweghe or even Leonhardt.

If you ask nicely, maybe the debate on that one will get fired up again :-)

Colin 't Hart wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Matthew Westphal) When is Paul McCreesh's recording of the SMP going to come out? I already have two recordings, both HIP, both cheaply bought through the Brilliant Classics licensing deals, but I'm hoping McCreesh will satisfy my desire for a good OVPP recording (apologies in advance for opening that can of worms, again -- now there's a comparison: non-HIP vs OVPP "ultra" HIP).

Kirk McElhearn wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Colin 't Hart, regarding Paul McCreesh) He is supposed to be recording it next spring, I think. But when it will be released, who knows?

Matthew Westphal wrote (November 27, 2000)
(To Kirk McElhearn, regarding Paul McCreesh): Actually, the Gabrieli Consort is touring with the St. Matthew next year, but they aren't due to record it until 2002, I believe. Far too long to wait.

Colin 't Hart wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Matthew Westphal, regarding Paul McCreesh) Too right. Hmmm, maybe the Purcell "Quartet" can be persuaded to do it before then??

Matthew Westphal wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Colin 't Hart, regarding Paul McCreesh) Try Andrew Parrott (who would need a record label -- Glissando, perhaps?).

Teri Noel Towe wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Matthew Westphal) What about Joshua Rifkin and The Bach Ensemble. They gave the first performance of BWV 244 since Bach's own with one singer to each line. The performance took place at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill in 1984, and it was one of the most thrilling musical experiences of my life.

There was a broadcast of it on North Carolina Public Radio, of which I would love to have a tape or a CD-R.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (Novermber 27, 2000):
(To Colin 't Hart, regarding Paul McCreesh) Could I please trouble you to spell out that which the acronym "OVPP" represents.

BWT, I understand "Santu De Silva's remarks well. And Gönnenwein and his group were reasonably well-known in some cantata recordings back a few decades ago. I have not heard their Matthäus Passion but would expect it to be rather appealing.

Matthew Westphal wrote (November 27, 2000):
(To Yoël L. Arbeitman, regarding OVPP) OVPP = one-voice-per-part

(actually, one singer per part -- the Rifkin-Parrott-McCreesh-Kuijken method)

Requests are made by list members evry so often to avoid such acronyms. (Such requests seem to come up especially often after someone uses "OVPP".) It's a
nice idea, but in spite of one's good intentions, sooner or later people will slip back into using acronyms. They're simply easier to type.

So, whether we like it or not, every so often someone unfamiliar with an acronym in regular use on the List will need to ask about it. In the past, such exchanges
on this List have gotten ugly. Let us hope that, as Yoel has done, we can keep these things civil from now on.

Colin 't Hart wrote (November 28, 2000):
< Matthew writes: OVPP = one-voice-per-part
(actually, one singer per part -- the Rifkin-Parrott-McCreesh-Kuijken method) >
Since when has Kuijken been OVPP? I have his recording of the Magnificat (BWV 243) coupled with BWV 21 on which the Netherlands Chamber Choir makes an appearance. This CD contains my favourite recordings of both works.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (November 28, 2000):
Philip Peters wrote:
<< Did you try the second Herreweghe? >>
Santu de Silva wrote:
< No, I really want to. It seems the CD to get, these days. >
Only one technical point on the 2^nd Herreweghe, at least when I and some friends got it about a year ago: the CD-ROM does not work unless you install Quicktime. And, of course, there is nothing on that CD-Rom that in the olden days was not supplied in a good sized booklet that would come with LP's, e.g. explanation and photos of the arrangement of the forces, ms. pictures and such.

Sybrand Bakker wrote (December 28, 2000):
(To Yoël L. Arbeitman, regarding the 2^nd Herreweghe) I own the Herreweghe set, including the CD-rom, and I don't agree with your comments on it. Compare the documents provided with the original Harnoncourt 1971 recording: They don't include a full biography, they don't include any comments on the Matthew Gospel, on the theological concepts involved, etc, etc, etc. The CD-ROM is a very valuable addition.

Donald Satz wrote (Novembeer 28, 2000):
(To Yoël L. Arbeitman, regarding the 2^nd Herreweghe) Just some words of caution about the recent Herreweghe set - the package is very large and taller than the norm. I keep most of my inventory in custom made drawers in an entertainment center. The Herreweghe was too tall to fit into any drawers, and I had to perform a little carpentry work to make it fit. But, it was well worth the effort.

Donald Satz wrote (Novembeer 28, 2000):
(To Sybrand Bakker, regarding the 2^nd Herreweghe) I agree with Sybrand. Besides, comparing liner notes from ancient times to what's providethese days doesn't seem pertinent.

Teri Noel Towe wrote (December 1, 2000):
For those who like the performance aesthetic that is rooted in the Mendelssohn-Bartholdy / Leipzig Conservatory tradition, I recommend both the Solti and the Mauersberger. Both are especially satisfying emotionally, and the tempos are not as "stodgy" as some find the Klemperer and the Richter.

Richter Passion and other works

Harry J. Steinman wrote (November 29, 2000):
Recently several people commented favorably about the Richter SMP and I'm tempted. I shopping at the HB Direct site and I see an SMP that says it was recorded in 1959 and I presume that's some kind of mistake, that it's really the '58 recording. Yes?

Also, I see that there's a 10-CD set, for about $68 (versus $33 for just the SMP). The 10 CD set, per the website, includes "Bach Orch. "Sacred Masterpieces" +St. John Passion; Christmas Oratorio; Magnificat; Mass in b minor".

It almost seems like a no-brainer to go for the large, economy size. Still, I wonder...anybody have any experience with Richter's SJP, Christmas Oratorio, Magnificat and Minor Mass?

Just wondering...

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (November 29, 2000):
(To Harry J. Steinman) If I recall (and if it matters to you), the Christmas Oratorio (BWV 248) conducted by Richter had as the tenor Fritz Wunderlich. If that matters. It is the one reason why I sometimes wish I still had the recording. Obviously all the Richter recordings are a basic reference point for many. I am one who doesn't "get a bang out of them", but that is besides the point.

Harry J. Steinman wrote (November 29, 2000):
(To Yoël L. Arbeitman) Yoel...Thanks. Yes, the name Wunderlich does mean something to me! The collection is sounding better...

Robert Sherman wrote (November 29, 2000):
Harry J. Steinman wrote:
< Also, I see that there's a 10CD set, for about $68 (versus $33 for just the SMP). The 10-CD set, per the website, includes "Bach Orch. "Sacred Masterpieces" +St. John Passion; Christmas Oratorio; Magnificat; Mass in b minor". It almost seems like a no-brainer to go for the large, economy size. Still, I wonder...anybody have any experience with Richter's SJP, Christmas Oratorio, Magnificat and Minor Mass? >
IMO the Magnificat is magnificent. The b minor is the best around, except the trumpets are too brash. SJP is the best around, period. I have mixed feelings about the XmasO. On balance, the set is worth the money. I'd get it except I already have all its parts.

Bob Sherman wrote (November 29, 2000):
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< If I recall (and if it matters to you), the Christmas Oratorio conducted by Richter had as the tenor Fritz Wunderlich. If that matters. It is the one reason why I sometimes wish I still had the recording. Obviously all the Richter recordings are a basic reference point for many. I am one who doesn't "get a bang out of them", but that is besides the point. >
I agree on Wunderlich. In this Evangelist-type role, Wunderlich actually sounds better than Haefliger. Marvelous open dark-tenor sound.

But strangely, his recording of the SJP with Forster is disappointing. Dry sound, not much musical thought in it.

Philip Peters wrote (November 29, 2000):
Harry J. Steinman wrote:
< (snip) It almost seems like a no-brainer to go for the large, economy size. Still, I wonder...anybody have any experience with Richter's SJP, Christmas Oratorio, Magnificat and Minor Mass? Just wondering... >
I have them all and still return to them.

Richter Sacred Music

Harry J. Steinman wrote (December 9, 2000):
Hey! My Richter just arrived yesterday, too! And I put on the SMP, per everyone’s suggestion (this is the famous 1958 recording of the Matthew Passion) and I just have one word to say: Holy Smokes! This recording is unbelievable! Now, I’m a bigger fan of small forces v. bigger forces, of OVPP (One Voice Per Part) v. Many VPP (MVPP??) etc. But I gotta tell you, this recording rocks! The opening chords of the Passion crackle with energy and the opening chorus nearly overwhelms with its power. I don’t know what Richter did to bottle all that strength in this recording, but it’s a doozey!

Anybody who enjoys the SMP…or Bach in general, would enjoy this tremendously, I believe.

Well, I’m a bit overwhelmed with music now as the Deutsche Grammophone Richter set (DGG 463 701) contains the SMP, the John Passion (BWV 245), the Minor Mass (BWV 232), Xmas Oratorio (BWV 248), Magnificat (BWV 243)…10 CD's…on top of a slew (20!) of CD's I got in a swap with another Bach enthusiast, as well as the Herreweghe Advent cantatas, some cantatas from Christophe Coin, etc.

But the Richter SMP will be the one in my CD player for a while…

Robert Sherman wrote (December 9, 2000):
(To Harry J. Steinman) Harry, I prefer small forces too, but I totally agree with your reaction to the Richter SMP. Great wine can come in bottles of many colors, etc. IMO the Richter SJP (BWV 245) and b minor (BWV 232) are fully as good as his SMP. I'd be interested in your reaction to them.

Harry J. Steinman wrote (December 9, 2000):
Bob...it may be a while before I get to 'em: I'm deliriously overwhelmed with new music to listen to. Sigh...so much Bach, so little time...

Philip Peters wrote (December 10, 2000):
(To Robert Sherman) And all these cantatas he recorded. I'm listening to many of them again. Mmmm.....

St Matthew Passion Rilling / Richter

Harry J. Steinman wrote (July 12, 2001):
[To William D. Kasimer] While we're on the subject of favorite non-HIP SMPs...I hasten to add the Richter 1958 recording with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, . Wow! There is a 10 CD set (Uni/Deutsche Grammophon - #463701, about $64 at Amazon.com) which includes all of the Passions, the Xmas Oratorio, B Minor Mass. I'm travelling, else I could tell you who else is on the recording (Schwartzkoff??) But this is one outstanding recording.

Piotr Jaworski wrote (July 12, 2001):
[To Harry J. Steinman] It seems that acquiring this huge set of Richter is .. unavoidable. I personally rather don't like "old" recordings (20's-60's)- no matter big or small scale vocal works, solo instrumental or orchestral. Various reasons: sound and recording quality, I'm very much pro-HIP kind of person, $$$ issue as well etc., etc. Richter's SMP as a 'must-have' - OK; what about the other works: especially SJP and the Great Mass? I wouldn't like to buy the whole set because of the attractive price
...
Shall I rather look for the separate SMP's 1958 recording or the whole 10 CDs Richter box cause no threat for the HIPper? ;-)

Paolo Fagoaga wrote (July 12, 2001):
[To Harry J. Steinman] Oh, yes Harry!!! I own the set of vocal works. 10 CD’s of joy!!! Highly recomendable for those who dig non HIP recordings. On the other hand, from non-HIP conductors, I think of Richter as the less romantic of them all. I consider he has just the right dose to reach some outstanding emotional moments, with more accent than you can find on HIP recordings.

Harry J. Steinman wrote (July 12, 2001):
[To Pablo Fagoaga] Pablo...You're right: The set is terriffic. I have to confess, I have trouble getting further than the opening chorus to the Matthew Passion! It's so powerful! And though I'm not a big fan of boy sopranos, when they join the chorus, I just get flattened. I like to play that movement LOUD!

Listening to St. Matthew’s Passion

Juozas Rimas wrote (July 21, 2001):
I haven't listened to it before (just started listening to Bach's VOCAL music). I now have only a well-maintained LP with the 1958 recording of Munich Bach Choir and Orchestra (cond. K. Richter). I've been told I shouldn't search for better recordings with regards to bass arias (they're by Dietrich Fisher-Dieskau in this recording).

Indeed, the bass arias (66, 75) from Kreuzigung and Grablegung are celestial. Wonderful music and superb singing.

So far I have listened only to two parts of thihuge work and would like to ask you: which parts have made the biggest impression to you? I couldn't perceive those "evangelist" (64, 67, 68 etc) parts very well. Which evangelists/choirs would be better to start from?

Deryk Barker wrote (July 23, 2001):
Juozas Rimas wrote:
< So far I have listened only to two parts of this huge work and would like to ask you: which parts have made the biggest impression to you? >
The opening and closing choruses and the chorales. (Can you tell I used to be a choral singer and had little patience for soloists?)

Pablo Massa wrote (July 24, 2001):
Juozas Rimas Jr (not the one playing) asks:
< So far I have listened only to two parts of this huge work (St. Matthew's Passion) and would like to ask you: which parts have made the biggest impression to you? >
There's a moment at the recitatives that always strikes me: that one in which the tortured Jesus cries:

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?"

Immediately (following the biblical text) the evangelist "translates" this cry:

"Mein Gott, mein Gott, warum hast du mich verlassen?"

Bach simply writes here the same melody, in other key.

I've always wondered why this impresses me so much every time I hear it. Perhaps this simple resource is a major example of musical "sympatheia" ("to suffer with"): the Evangelist wants to translate the words of Jesus, but doing this, he also emulates his affection (affetto).... Imitatio Christi, after all?. Whatever the answer may be, I find this attempt of imitation deeply moving.

Santu de Silva wrote (July 24, 2001):
Juozas Rimas wrote:
< So far I have listened only to two parts of this huge work and would like to ask you: which parts have made the biggest impression to you? >>
Deryk Barker wrote:
< The opening and closing choruses and the chorales. (Can you tell I used to be a choral singer and had little patience for soloists?) >
Me (to the original question):

try "Mache dich mein Herze rein," a Bass solo towards the end, and "Ich will dir mein Herze schenken,"(sp?) a Sporano aria about a third of the way through.

About choruses vs soli: the choruses are definitely more arresting, but the way Bach wrote arias, they're the closest thing to instrumental writing with voice that you can find in the Baroque repertoire, as most people seem to agree, unofficially. So they're a good transition to works that are more mainstream vocal or operatic, such as, for example, Handel, in my opinion.

Pablo Massa wrote (July 28, 2001):
< Santu de Silva to Juozas Rimas:
< try "Mache dich mein Herze rein," a Bass solo towards the end, and "Ich will dir mein Herze schenken,"(sp?) a Sporano aria about a third of the way through (...) the choruses are definitely more arresting, but the way Bach wrote arias, they're the closest thing to instrumental writing with voice that you can find in the Baroque repertoire, as most people seem to agree, unofficially. >
I don't agree. It's true that many people seem to agree to this idea, but I can't see why. Bach's vocal writing is far from the instrumental, much more than Händel's. See, for example, "Ev'ry Valley shall be Exalted" or "Rejoice Greatly" (Messiah). They are almost "concerti" for solo voices. 'Au contraire', "Mache dich mein Herze rein" (St. Matthew's Passion) doesn't need a great vocal technique to be sung (of course, notice that I didn't write "to be well sung"), nor "Ich will dir mein Herze Schenken".

Christopher Rosevear wrote (August 27, 2001):
Juozas Rimas asked:
< Which evangelists/choirs would be better to start from? >
I remember being hit by Peter Pears; but there is an interesting discussion of interpretations at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV244-Richter.htm

Constance Shacklock wrote (August 29, 2001):
Dr David Lampson noted:
< Everyone knows, or at least I thought everyone knows, that Pete was Ben's enforcer. Cross Ben, and a visit from Pete was the dreaded consequence. >
I can tell you something even more terrifying. Cross Peter, and you could expect a knock at the door from Imogen Holst!

Ah, dear, dear Imo. I often think she would have made a great 'mafiosa'. She used to make me laugh so much with her Damon Runyon impressions, I almost died! This talent for mimicry obviously ran in the family: her father, the great composer Gustav (of whom some of you may have heard) did a faultless impression of Ellen Terry as Lady Macbeth over the fish course every Sunday.

He also made astrological charts for close friends - and woe betide you if Uranus was in conjunction with Mars! This curious interest had a musical consequence in a reasonably well-known piece called "The Planets" which some of you may know. (Imo once told me that she had Mercury rising, but I put it down to the inclement weather Aldeburgh was having at the time.)

Ah, Dr Lampson - how you bring those fragrant memories back in flocks!

Richter's 1979 recording of the SMP

Rene Pannecoek wrote (Janyuary 28, 2003):
On bach-cantatas.com I've read some not-so-enthousiastic reviews about Richter's last recording of the Saint Matthew Passion. I have a question pertaining this recording, and another one in general. As I've written before, I've become very fond of Peter Schreier's singing. Is his performance in this recording marred by the (apparently peculiar) conducting, or, on the other hand, does he make up for it? And more generally, which of the Schreier-evangelist interpretations do you prefer? (Mauersberger 1970, Karajan 1972, Richter 1979, Schreier 1984, etc.)

Juozas Rimas wrote (January 28, 2003):
< Rene Pannekoek wrote: On bach-cantatas.com I've read some not-so-enthousiastic reviews about Richter's last recording of the Saint Matthew Passion. >
This recording includes several examples of the best singing I have ever heard. I have still not found a better example of singing (in any genre, voice pitch etc) than D. F. Dieskau's recitative "Am Abend da es kühle war" from Richter's 1979 SMP. It sounds perfect to me: in feeling, thought, diction, subtle orchestral accompaniment and the unearthly, angelic voice quality I have never heard elsewhere. That one recitative could justify the whole recording to me but the remaining Dieskau's recitatives and arias in the recording are also prime.

Schreier is an exquisite evangelist in this recording too, better IMHO than Haefliger in Richter's 1958 SMP.

Rene Pannecoek wrote (January 28, 2003):
[To Juozas Rimas] Thank you for your reply, Juozas. But on jsbach.org as well as on bach-cantatas.com I've read that the bass arias are sung by Matti Salminen. Fischer-Dieskau only sings the Jesus-part. But I think we have the same recording in mind. :-)

Ivan Lalis wrote (January 28, 2003):
[To Rene Pannecoek] But there must be something Fischy-Dishy in Salminen's voice. I was watching Talented Mr Ripley which contains an aria (Mache dich, mein Herze, rein) from Richter's SMP. For the first impression I would swear it was Fischer-Dieskau singing and his name was even in the credits. But I was told it's Salminen and when I re-listened the bit I realized it's really him and not FD. Or is he? :-)

Roland Wörner wrote (January 28, 2003):
[To Rene Pannecoek] There are to distinguish two recordings of the S. Matthew Passion by Karl Richter, both recorded by Deutsche Grammophon Archiv Produktion:

1958 Irmgard Seefried, soprano. Hertha Töpper, alto. Ernst Haefliger, evangelist and tenor arias. Kieth Engen, Jesus. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, bass arias.

1979 Edith Mathis, soprano. Janet Baker, alto. Peter Schreier, evangelist and tenor arias. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Jesus. Matti Salminen, bass arias.

Both recordings are with Münchener Bach Choir and Orchestra.

To what is said about the bass recitatives and arias, especially about "Am Abend, da es kühle war - Mache dich, mein Herze rein" I have nothing to add...

Juozas Rimas wrote (January 28, 2003):
Rene Pannekoek wrote:
< Thank you for your reply, Juozas. But on jsbach.org as well as on bach-cantatas.com I've read that the bass arias are sung by Matti Salminen. Fischer-Dieskau only sings the Jesus-part. >
I haven't the recording at hand (lent) but I'm almossure it's vice versa. I remember some Jesus recitatives from it and it was surely someone other than Dieskau.

It's possible I'm confusing it with the 1958 Richter's SMP which definitely has Dieskau for arias/recitatives and K. Engen as Jesus.

So it's either my mistake or jsbach.org and bach-cantatas.com must fix their listings :)

Richter: Matthäus-Passion (1979 performance?)

Charles Francis wrote (April 12, 2003):
Amazon Germany has three remaining copies of:
Matthäus-Passion [3CD BOX SET] Johann Sebastian Bach Karl Richter,
Münchener Bach-Orchester
Price: EUR 14,99 !!
Amazon.de

I think this recording is now "out of print"?

1979 Richter SMP?

William D. Kasimer wrote (May 21, 2003):
Has anyone heard Karl Richter's 1969 recording of the ST. MATTHEW PASSION? I thought that there were only two Richter recordings, from 1958 and 1979, but I came across a Japanese DG Archiv issue of what would appear to be yet another recording, from 1969. Soloists are Ursula Buckel, Marga Höffgen, Haefliger, Keith Engen (Jesus), and Peter van der Bilt (Arias, etc.).

Aryeh Oron wrote (May 21, 2003):
[To William D. Kasimer] What a coincidence! I have just received this album from Japan (together with the 1st SJP of Suzuki and MBM of Winschermann). I have just started listening to it. I shall send my impressions in due time.

BTW, the details of recordings of Bach's other vocal works by Karl Richter can be found at the following page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Richter-Rec2.htm

1958 Richter SMP

Jack Botelho wrote (March 18, 2004):
Bob Henderson wrote:
< Its Archiv stereo. I have found the early Archiv stereo recordings to be of excellent quality The clarity (and placement) of the boychoir for example stands out. It is the peer of the McCreesh in terms of the sound quality. >
Indeed, from my memory, the sound quality of the 1958 Richter SMP, from the digital remastered version, is almost astounding considering the age of that recording. The Archiv Stereo production must have been at the cutting edge of sound quality in the late 1950s.

However, for those who are only aquainted with much more recent versions of the SMP, I would guess the 1958 Richter will be a huge leap of faith to accept stylistically, but in terms of expressing an awesome sense of religious conviction, that recording must have stunned listeners of the time, and still some today.

RICHTER'S SMP

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (February 20, 2005):
Just a shot question.
In the Sacred Works Collection (Archiv's 10 CD box) is included one of Richter's renditions of SMP.
But I don't know which one is there (hope it's 1958's).
Does anybody know this?
Thanks in advance.

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (February 20, 2005):
[To Pablo Fagoaga] It is.

Stephen Benson wrote (February 20, 2005):
[To Pablo Fagoaga] Yes, it is the 1958 recording.

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (February 20, 2005):
[To David Glenn Lebut Jr.] Thanks!

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (February 20, 2005):
[To Stephen Benson] Great. I'll go for it.
Thanks.

BWV 244 Richter 1979 vs. 1958 Performance

Brach Jennings wrote (January 2, 2009):
Could anyone provide an explanation as to why Karl Richter chose to use harpsichord as the primary continuo instrument on the recitatives in his 1979 recording of BWV 244? In his 1958 version, he uses the organ. Also, in the later recording, fermatas are observed much more frequently than in the first. Any light that can be shed on this would be appreciated.

Thank You!

Douglas Cowling wrote (January 2, 2009):
Brach Jennings wrote:
< Could anyone provide an explanation as to why Karl Richter chose to use harpsichord as the primary continuo instrument on the recitatives in his 1979 recording of BWV 244? In his 1958 version, he uses the organ. >
The authentic performance movement came down very heavily on no harpsichords in the sacred music of Bach in the 1960's. I remember critics commenting on this unfavorably, but without any real appreciation of the historical argument. Harnoncourt followed suit in his recordings. Historians such as Dreyfuss showed conclusively that Bach used both organ and harpsichord and now there is more diversity of approach, although many ensembles abandon the organ because it's cheaper to use a harpsichord and lots of non-HIP conductors like the percussive "jangle." Brad, your observations?

Bradley Lehman wrote (January 2, 2009):
[To Douglas Cowling] Well said, Doug.

It's clear from the evidence (existing parts and external) that Bach often used both harpsichord and organ. It's not so clear if they were both used together in performance, but they might have been; harpsichords (when played well and positioned centrally) certainly help to hold ensembles together rhythmically, whether or not the congregation down on the main floor would have heard any harpsichord.

Another possible use of the harpsichord part would have been for rehearsals: more portable, and not needing to be pumped.

It's important to note that the harpsichord and organ parts are usually in different keys, since the organ at Chorton was a transposing instrument but the harpsichord wasn't, from the perspective of the orchestra and singers.

The St Matthew Passion (BWV 244) is certainly supposed to have at least two keyboard players, and probably three. In both orchestras it calls for "Organo e Continuo", plus there is a part for "Continuo pro Cembalo" in orchestra 2. Both the organ parts are at Chorton, and the harpsichord part is in Cammerton.

Financial and other circumstances being what they are, some ensembles still scrimp and hire fewer than three players. About a dozen years ago I played in a performance where they didn't hire any organists (or try to use the organ off to the side in the auditorium), but only me on harpsichord to cover all the keyboard parts in both orchestras. I had to meld them together as much as feasible, jumping back and forth on the two bass lines while playing from full score. That was almost impossible.

There are still plenty of presenters around who apparently think along the lines: if it's Baroque music, you hire one harpsichordist (one size fits all) and you're done; no theorbos, no second keyboard, and no beefing up the pool of bass-line melodic players either. The harpsichord is expected to solve all continuo problems, automatically, irrespective of the repertoire chosen...but not necessarily to have any say in the way anybody else plays stylistically (or not). The jangle automatically makes the music sound Baroque, so it must be the right thing to do. Oh well.... Smile, nod, play well, accept the check, hope they hire again next year.

Even worse is when they have their pianist/accompanist play the harpsichord parts without any harpsichord lessons, and bring the harpsichord guy in only as the technician or tuner to wrestle the instrument into shape, after it's sat there unused in a closet for a year or more. Then, they want three or four emergency repairs and tunings during the rehearsal week, when the pianist can't handle it, but grumble about paying for the special trips it takes to come in and do it...so maybe they won't program any Baroque music next time, so they don't have to deal with it. Argh. If pianos blended better, maybe they could just use piano.

I recently got the 1935 recording of Mozart's "Cosi fan tutte" by Glyndebourne/Busch, which was apparently the first recording of the piece. According to the notes, Busch was adamantly opposed to using any harpsichord, even though the recitatives obviously need it. So, a piano plunks and thuds all the way through the opera, sounding silly. Good singing and playing, marred by the ensemble's unwillingness to use an instrument the composer expected.

Continue of this part of the discussion, see: Continuo in Bach’s Vocal Works - Part 8 [General Topics]

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 3, 2009):
[To Brach Jennings] There is a lot of evidence thaBach himself conducted from the Harpsichord in leading performances of his Vokalwerke. It seems (at least to me) that Richter was just following this practice. Plus the fact that the 1742 performance had only 1 organ available (the performance was in the Nikolaikirche, the organ of which was under a constant state of repair [there is evidence that it was still being worked on in 1749, which may explain the extraordinary scoring of the version of the Johannespassion BWV 245 used on Good Friday that year]). Hence the use of the Harpsichord for Orchestra II in the 1742 Matthäuspassion BWV 244.

Continue of this part of the discussion, see: Bach as Conductor [General Topics]

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 3, 2009):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
"The St Matthew Passion (BWV 244) is certainly supposed to have at least two keyboard players, and probably three. In both orchestras it calls for "Organo e Continuo", plus there is a part for "Continuo pro Cembalo" in orchestra 2. Both the organ parts are at Chorton, and the harpsichord part is in Cammerton."
I respond thus:

Am sitting here with my copy of the Study score of the Baerenreiter Urtext Edition (taken from the NBA) of the Johannespassion BWV 245. In the Preface, they state about Version IV that there were two additional Continuo parts, "one figured for Cembalo,the other unfigured, copied from the first, andmarked "Cembalo" doubtless by oversight". This suggests that the Cembalo was also always transposed and figured, like the organ.

Another item to think about is thus:

From June of 1724, the only instruments to use the Kammerton (not the Tiefer franzoesischer Kammerton, which was no longer used) were the Voices, the Strings (that is, the members of the Violin or Viol family), and the Woodwinds. All others used the Chorton. This included Keyboard Instruments.

Here is the proof (taken from the Bachdiskographie site):

ab ca. Juni 1724
Cornet- bzw. Chorton mit a ~ 465 Hz, Orgel & BlechbläserKammerton mit a ~ 413-415, Vokalstimmen, Holzbläser, Streicher - der tiefe französische Kammerton wird nicht mehr verwendet

From ca. June 1724 Cornet- and/or Choir Tone with a~ 465 Hz, organ & Brass
Chamber Tone with a~413-415, vocal voices, Woodwinds, Streicher - the Chamber Tone Deep French is used no longer.

The Cembalo would be in the same class as the Organ.

John Pike wrote (January 4, 2009):
[To David Glenn Lebut Jr.] Here is an extract from the liner notes to John Butt's recent recording of the Matthew passion in Bach's last performing version, c1742. The full article can be read at: http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-matthew-passion.aspx

"Instrumental Scoring

In following Bach's vocal scoring more directly than in most previous performances (even those with single voices) we have also decided to recreate the instrumentation that Bach employed in his last performance of the Matthew Passion. Most significant here seems to be his substitution of a harpsichord for the organ in orchestra two. This has normally been explained by the fact that the second main organ, at the other end of Leipzig's Thomaskirche, had fallen into disrepair. But it is not likely that this instrument could ever have performed a continuo function, given the distance involved, and, in any case, Bach could easily have employed a positive organ for choir two. Given that the harpsichord features in several other late performances by Bach, we might then infer that it was included here to provide a genuine contrast of texture rather than merely to serve as an emergency measure.

Bach also added a viola da gamba to choir two in his last performance, a different part (and, presumably, player) from that of choir one. This is for the tenor 2 recitative and aria ('Mein Jesus schweigt/Geduld') where the viola da gamba is added to the existing continuo of violoncello and violone (and oboes in the recitative). In other words, the gamba seems to be an addition rather than the substitution that is often assumed. This gives both numbers a rather grittier sonority, perhaps portraying more vividly the taunting against which the beleaguered tenor calls for patience."

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 4, 2009):
[To John Pike] There is a correct statement about the organ being out of repair, but according to the diary of the Sexton of the Thomaskirche Johann Christoph Rost (Sexton from 1722-1738) (BD II, no. 180), the outline of the Passion performance locales is thus:

1724: Nikolaikirche
1725: Thomaskirche
1726: Nikolaikirche
1727: Thomaskirche
1728: Nikolaikirche
1729: Thomaskirche
1730: Nikolaikirche
1731: Thomaskirche
1732: Nikolaikirche
1733: None (Tempus clausum for state mourning)
1734: Thomaskirche
1735: Nikolaikirche
1736: Thomaskirche
1737: Nikolaikirche
1738: Thomaskirche
1739: Thomaskirche (Cancelled)
1740: Nikolaikirche
1741: Thomaskirche
1742: Nikolaikirche
1743: Thomaskirche
1744: Nikolaikirche
1745: Thomaskirche
1746: Nikolaikirche
1747: Thomaskirche
1748: Nikolaikirche
1749: Thomaskirche
1750: Nikolaikirche

Matthäus-Passion BWV 244: Details
Complete Recordings: 1900-1949 | 1950-1959 | 1960-1969 | 1970-1979 | 1980-1989 | 1990-1999 | 2000-2009 | 2010-2019 | 2020-2029
Recordings of Individual Movements: 1900-1949 | 1950-1959 | 1960-1969 | 1970-1979 | 1980-1989 | 1990-1999 | 2000-2009 | 2010-2019 | 2020-2029
General Discussions: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14 | Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | BWV 244a | BWV 244b
Systemetic Discussions: Part 1: Mvts. 1-8 | Part 2: Mvts. 9-20 | Part 3: Mvts. 21-29 | Part 4: Mvts. 30-40 | Part 5: Mvts. 41-50 | Part 6: Mvts. 51-57 | Part 7: Mvts. 58-63b | Part 8: Mvts. 63c-68 | Part 9: Role of the Evangelist
Individual Recordings: BWV 244 - L. Bernstein | BWV 244 - G.C. Biller | BWV 244 - F. Brüggen | BWV 244 - J. Butt | BWV 244 - R. Chailly | BWV 244 - S. Cleobury | BWV 244 - J. Daus | BWV 244 - D. Fasolis | BWV 244 - W. Furtwängler | BWV 244 - J.E. Gardiner | BWV 244 - W. Gönnenwein | BWV 244 - P. Goodwin | BWV 244 - E.z. Guttenberg | BWV 244 - N. Harnoncourt | BWV 244 - P. Herreweghe | BWV 244 - R. Jacques | BWV 244 - H.v. Karajan | BWV 244 - O. Klemperer | BWV 244 - T. Koopman | BWV 244 - S. Koussevitzky | BWV 244 - S. Kuijken | BWV 244 - F. Lehmann | BWV 244 - G. Leonhardt | BWV 244 - P.J. Leusink | BWV 244 - E.&R. Mauersberger | BWV 244 - H. Max | BWV 244 - P. McCreesh | BWV 244 - W. Mengelberg | BWV 244 - K. Münchinger | BWV 244 - R. Norrington | BWV 244 - G. Oberfrank | BWV 244 - S. Ozawa | BWV 244 - A. Parrott | BWV 244 - G. Ramin | BWV 244 - S. Rattle | BWV 244 - K. Richter | BWV 244 - H. Rilling | BWV 244 - H.J. Rotzsch | BWV 244 - H. Scherchen | BWV 244 - G. Solti | BWV 244 - C. Spering | BWV 244 - M. Suzuki | BWV 244 - J.v. Veldhoven | BWV 244 - B. Walter | BWV 244 - F. Werner | BWV 244 - M. Wöldike
Articles: Saint Matthew Passion, BWV 244 [T.N. Towe] | Two Easter St. Matthew Passions (Plus One) [U. Golomb] | St. Matthew Passion from Harnoncourt [D. Satz] | The Passion according to Saint Matthew BWV 244 [J. Rifkin] | The Relationship between BWV 244a (Trauermusik) and BWV 244b (SMP Frühfassung) [T. Braatz] | Matthäus-Passion BWV 244 - Early History (A Selective, Annotated Bibliography) [W. Hoffman] | Spiritual Sources of Bach's St. Matthew Passion [W. Hoffman] | Bach and the "Great Passion" [D.G. Lebut Jr.] | The Genesis of Bach's `Great Passion': 1724-29 [W. Hoffman] | Early Performances of Bach's SMP [T. Braatz]