Matthäus-Passion BWV 244
General Discussions - Part 3
Continue from Part 2
HIP St Matthew Passion
Jaime Jean wrote (February 20, 2001):
I'm planning to spring for a HIP SMP this Easter. Which one should I get? I already have the first Herreweghe on tape, and find it very good. I also have Harnoncourt on LP and I find it dull.
I have heard wonders about the second Herreweghe and mixed reviews about Suzuki. Any other choices I should consider?
Despite their virtues, non-HIP such as Klemperer, Richter (got it already), Münchinger (ditto) are out of the question for the time being.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Hell Spree wrote (February 20, 2001)
(To Jaime Jean) I would stay away from the Suzuki. It's very polished, too classicized, and doesn't have much life. The Herreweghe, from what I've heard, is an excellent performance, but like the Gardiner, is very dance-like in certain spots. So, if you don't mind a little springy SMP, Herreweghe or Gardiner would do well.
Sybrand Bakker wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Jaime Jean) You should of course always consider Leonhardt on DHM (cheap as this is an 1989 recording), with Max van Egmond singing Christ, and Pregardien the evangelist. You may find the opening chorus a bit too slow, but for the rest it is a wonderful recording.
Other Dutch HIP-recordings :
Koopman on Erato (doesn't touch me that much)
Bruggen on Philips (uneven)
Van Veldhoven with the Dutch Bach Society on Vanguard? (don't have it, have heard fragments, which I very much liked)
The New Herrweghe doesn't do much to me, it is too 'clean'/ 'perfect' / too much legato / too smooth, I think his first recording is better
Which Harnoncourt do you have? The legendary 1971 recording or the 1983 Concertgebouw (which I think is awful, I heard the broadcast). The 1971 recording with Concentus Musicus should be on any list for Kurt Equiluz alone
Terry Tis wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Jaime Jean) That first Herreweghe is pretty hard to improve upon.
Evan Johnson wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Terry Tis) ... and yet he himself managed it. Get the second one! Ian Bostridge and Andreas Scholl is astounding, as is Selig (Jesus), the playing and pacing and everything else I can think of are perfect (with the modest exception of the female singer whose name I've forgotten, but that is a matter of taste and, IMO, as I said, only a modest exception.)
Simon Roberts wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Jaime Jean) I prefer the soloists in Herreweghe I overall to those in Herreweghe II, but prefer everything else about Herreweghe II; since you already have I on tape, you might as well get II, especially if you like the idea of fooling around with the CD-Rom that comes with it (I've still not looked at it). Suzuki's isn't as good in any way, especially his soloists, who are generally inadequate. There are numerous other HIP recordings, but I suspect you won't find them as satisfying as either of Herreweghe's.
Evan Johnson wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Simon Roberts) The CD-ROM may not be musicologically significant, but it is a lot of fun. I do suspect it'd be a big selling point to newcomers to this work, though.
Philip Peters wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Jaime Jean) Max, Leonhardt and in the near future McCreesh is going to record it, something I look forward to.
Philip Peters wrote (February 21, 2001):
(To Terry Tis) Not for Herreweghe though....
Victor Eijkhout wrote (February 22, 2001):
(To Terry Tis) Ok, translation for the non-expert? "first" Herreweghe? "second"?
Hell Spree wrote (February 22, 2001):
< Ok, translation for the non-expert? "first" Herreweghe? "second"? >
He's done it twice.
Alan Richards wrote (February 22, 2001):
I would agree with Evan Johnson's assessment of Herreweghe's second SMP.
IMO it is an improvement on his first account (although that was very good). Unfortunately, however, soprano Sibylla Rubens has a very hard voice, which I suppose some may find pleasing, but compared to Barbara Bonney and especially Anna Monoyios on the Gardener set there is no contest. Andreas Scholl is naturally excellent, but then so is Michael Chance for JEG.
As far as Evangelists are concerned I must admit to preferring Anthony Rolfe-Johnson over Ian Bostridge. The former is so explicit that I feel no need for a translation. Moreover I find the discipline and precision of the Monteverdi Choir preferable to the softer and less dramatic efforts of Collegium Vocale.
I remember the BBC Music Magazine review of PH's second and the adjective which prevailed was "beautiful". Personally I desire a bit more than beauty from a recording/performance of the SMP - something which I feel JEG gives.
Victor Hijkhout wrote (February 22, 2001):
<< Ok, translation for the non-expert? "first" Herreweghe? "second"? >>
< Hell Spree wrote: He's done it twice. >
Yes, that much was clear.
I meant to ask: what labels, what year, what ensembles, how do I know which one I'm buying if I see it in a catalogue. That sort of thing.
Simon Roberts wrote (February 22, 2001):
< Alan Richards wrote: As far as Evangelists are concerned I must admit to preferring Anthony Rolfe-Johnson over Ian Bostridge. The former is so explicit that I feel no need for a translation. >
Have you heard Kurt Equiluz or Christoph Prégardien? They strike me as being the best of the more recent SMP Evangelists (I wouldn't mind hearing Ian Honeyman, a superbly dramatic Evangelist on Dombrecht's SJP try it).
Philip Peters wrote (February 23, 2001):
<< Terry Tis wrote: That first Herreweghe is pretty hard to improve upon. >>
< Victor Eijkhout wrote: Ok, translation for the non-expert? "first" Herreweghe? "second"? >
Herreweghe recorded SMP twice, in 1985 and in1999. While there is no radical change in interpretation the latter one is generally regarded as more intense and graced with better singing(Scholl instead of Jacobs, for instance). A dissident response comes from The Man Who Has Heard Every Recording Ever Made, Simon Roberts, who prefers Herreweghe I)
Ryan Hare wrote (February 23, 2001):
(To Simon Roberts) For the vast multitudes of us who have heard fewer recordings than Mr. Roberts, would someone be so kind as to attach these Evangelisti to their respective recordings (conductor/label)? Many thanks.
Jan Melaerts wrote (Bebruary 23, 2001):
(To Ryan Hare) The Dombrecht Passion is distributed by Virgin.
I sang in Dombrecht's Choir last year in Murcia where Ian Honeyman starred indeed as a superb Evangelist in the St Matthew Passion. I have so far not found any recording with him though. I hope Dombrecht will make one.
Simon Roberts wrote (February 23, 2001):
(To Ryan Hare) Equiluz has recorded the role for Harnoncourt (Teldec) and Corboz (Erato), Prégardien for Leonhardt (Deutsche Harmonia Mundi) and Max (Capriccio). Maybe others as well, but that's what I have.
James Minklerstraat wrote (February 23, 2001):
(To Jan Melaerts) I heard Paul Dombrecht's Saint John Passion in Leuven a few years ago (I don't believe Ian Honeyman sang in it--although I'm not certain, because then I didn't know who Ian Honeyman was) and it was marvellous. It was dramatized to a rather incredible extent. I usually am the first to gastritis at things which are hyperbolically dramatised. But this was so sublimely performed that the dramatic effects only added to the piece. I actually had the feeling that, if I had heard a recording of this performance instead of experiencing it live, I would feel it was a little bit hoaky. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard the SJP on disc...Jan, is there a difference between the live performances and on disc? Any additional comments?
Simon Roberts wrote (February 23, 2001):
(To James (Minklerstraat)) The recording released by Dutch Vanguard is a live performance from April 1996, recorded in Begijnhofkerk Sint-Truiden, Belgium. The other soloists (not on Honeyman's level, for the most part) are Werner von Mechelen, Greta de Reyghere, Steve Dugardin, Stuart Patterson and Dirk Snellings.
Jan Melaerts wrote (February 23, 2001):
(To James Minklerstra) Surely quite a different atmosphere can be sensed in the (sometimes) rather clean and more sterile recording sessions compared by the warm interaction a fascinated and moved audience becomes a part of. Especially last year in Murcia where Paul's St Matthew Passion was very warmly received, there was a sort of mystic, even religious (re-lictere with higher spiritual levels) and breathtaking athmosphere throughout the entire Passion. Even for rather experienced choristers, this was a unforgettable event. In general I am quite enthusiastic of Paul Dombrecht's very warm humane approach of Bach’s works. Ian Honeyman surely fits perfect in this picture.
William D. Kasimer wrote (February 23, 2001):
< Simon Roberts wrote: Equiluz has recorded the role for Harnoncourt (Teldec) and Corboz (Erato), >
Also for Swarowsky, on a set issued by Nonesuch (on LP only, AFAIK). My rather dim recollection of this set is that Equiluz was in better voice than for either of the above, and sings both arias as well as the Evangelist.
Alan Richards wrote (February 26, 2991):
(To Philip Peters, regarding Herrweghe) Don't forget that we have Jacobs to thank for a lot of that which makes Scholl the singer he is!
Moreover, for my money Howard Crook makes easily as good an Evangelist on "Herreweghe I" as Ian Bostridge on "Herreweghe II". The latter seems to get so involved in the action that he loses any sense of the affected, but detached narrator which I feel sure Bach intended. Let's face it; it's not an opera despite various witty implications to the contrary!
I'm grateful to Simon Robert's for having pointed out that Christoph Prégardien has recorded SMP. I shall have to hunt out one of these recordings; his performance in Koopman's "St. Mark Passion" certainly struck me as impressive (notice that I tactfully refer to it as "Koopman's" rather than "Bach's" for the sake of those who are sensitive on this issue!). What a shame, however, that there are as yet no recordings of SMP or SJP with Mark Padmore - despite last year's disastrous ENO production of the latter I feel sure he is destined to become one of our leading Evangelists.
Simon Roberts wrote (February 26, 2001):
(To Alan Richards) Besides, while Jacobs may have irritating mannerisms (he's rather fond of scooping that seems to go beyond portamento) and may not be as good a singer as Scholl (though I'm not sure about that), he strikes me as a much more interesting interpreter than Scholl
< Moreover, for my money Howard Crook makes easily as good an Evangelist on "Herreweghe I" as Ian Bostridge on "Herreweghe II". >
Agreed.
Sybrand Bakker wrote (February 27, 2001):
(To Ryan Hare) Equiluz with Harnoncourt and Concentus Musicus Wien, on Teldec, originally released in 1971, but still available. Prégardien with Leonhardt and La Petite Bande on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi, recording from 1989, also still available. He also seems to have recorded with Hermann Max on Capriccio, but this recording seems to be out of print.
Johan van Veen wrote (February 27, 2001):
(To Sybrand Bakker) I have seen Max' recording at the Bijenkorf in Utrecht at reduced price (Hfl 25 if I remember well).
Johan van Veen wrote (February 27, 2001):
(To Philip Peters) He is not the only one. I find Ian Bostridge simply unacceptable. He should stay away from baroque music altogether. The others are not much better, with the exception of Scholl, although I don't go off in a swoon when he is singing, as so many people seem to do these days. I very much prefer Jacobs.
Herreweghe I is better, but I don't care much about it. The strengths are the choir, Jacobs and Ulrik Cold in the role of Christ. But Howard Crook as the Evangelist is not my cup of tea.
James Minklerstraat wrote (March 7, 2001):
The new Harnoncourt w/Prégardien is now out; it's even temporarily bargain-priced in many places. Would be interested in hearing any reactions on it.
Sybrand Bakker wrote (March 7, 2001):
(To James Minklerstraat) And it contains a computer readable copy of the autograph score on the 3rd CD. So far, I have listened to only one CD. I will comment on it later. For now I would like just to say I am struck by the ways he has the chorales sung. It seems very much rhetorical-driven. While that may be OK, I don't believe any congregation, whether at that time, or nowadays has been singing or is singing these chorales in the same fashion.
Charles Francis wrote (March 7, 2001):
(To James Minklerstraat) From the marketing hype on the Warner-Teldec site:
"From the first bars, this recording offers new and astonishing insights to Bach's magnificent oeuvre that are significantly different from any of the available competitive recordings as well as from Harnoncourt's own St. Matthew Passion recording released 30 years ago. For example, the soprano and alto parts are taken by women's voices on the new disc and the double chorus, each side with its own continuo, reflects the changes that Bach made to the St. Matthew Passion when he revived the work in 1736."
Indeed, I was astonished to learn of Bach's revision for women soprano and alto!
And, the Vienna Boys Choir - how UNHIP can you get?
James Minklerstaat wrote (March 10,2001):
(To Sybrand Bakker) Rhetorical-driven? I'd like to hear more about what you mean by this...that too much effort is made to express the text in the singing of the chorales?
Margaret Mikulska wrote (March 10, 2001):
(To Philip Peters, regarding Herreweghe) Herreweghe I is hard to beat as far as intensity is concerned. The Evangelist sings as if he were indeed the witness of the events. Herreweghe II has a dreadful bass for the arias, quite unacceptable. If it wasn't for the bass, it would be a toss for me.
PK wrote (March 11, 2001):
(To Margaret Mikulska, regarding Herrweghe) I don't like either of them, finding both Evangelists sissies (with foreign accent), as compared to Schreier's latest (his own) effort.
Sybrand Bakker wrote (March 11, 2001):
(To James Minklerstaat)Yes, a typical congegration would sing this in strict, albeit too slow time, without any accelerandi and ritardandi, and without any crescendi and descrecendi. This is exactly what Harnoncourt is doing here. As far as I am concerned, he is pushing it a bit into the extreme, (knowing an untrained congregation wouldn't have done this).
Charles Francis wrote (March 11, 2001):
(To Sybrand Bakker) But on the other hand, the SMP chorales were sung by Bach's 8 (?) best singers and not by an untrained congregation. So the historical approach adopted by Klemperer, Richter, Rilling et al., and recently discovered by Harnoncourt, is not unreasonable.
James Minklerstaat wrote (March 11,2001):
(To Sybrand Bakker) Check back on nl.klassiek. There was a thread by a guy who picked this one up in 'Bijenkorf' or one of the other Dutch places we aren't blessed with in Flanders for very cheap, and reactions are quite positive...damn you Dutch people with your Bijenkorfs etc, all I've got here is Kruidvat and fnac <greenly jealous>
Margaret Mikulska wrote (March 20, 2001):
(To PK) Which one is Schreier's latest effort? Is that on Philips?
PK wrote (March 21, 2001):
(To Margaret Mikulska, regarding Schreier) I think it's his last recorded St Matthew Evangelist (unless I have missed something), and I find it infinitely better than the two former ones I know (Mauersbergers and Karajan), supple, heartrendingly expressive, extremely rich and intelligent; sounds almost as if he needed this "freedom of speech" from other people's visions. Of course, the voice isn't the most beautiful of instruments, but here it doesn't bother me in the least. His St John for Philips is just as fantastic (and I still find his conducting here the best on records - a view Simon doesn't share, I'm afraid - more satisfying globally than in the St Matt). I agree with you re Henschel (bass in Herreweghe II): a colourless performance.
Simon Roberts wrote (March 21, 2001):
(To PK, regarding the recording of Johannes-Passion by Schreier for Philips)
Which, of course, matters very much.... - more satisfying globally than in the St Matt.
< I agree with you re Henschel (bass in Herreweghe II): a colourless . >
Me too; but he's not as bad as Gardiner's what'sisname.
PK wrote (March 21, 2001):
(Regarding the recording of Johannes-Passion by Schreier for Philips) < Simon Roberts wrote: Which, of course, matters very much.... - more satisfying globally than in the St Matt. >
You just wouldn't believe!
<< I agree with you re Henschel (bass in Herreweghe II): a colourless performance.>>
< Me too; but he's not as bad as Gardiner's what'sisname. >
Sis name is Cornelius Hauptmann, and it's incredible how fast he declined : I have him (doo yoo?) in the Bernius' excellent Monteverdi series on FSM (most of which never made it to CD), and he sounds like a very promising feller there. Henschel sang Grand Prêtre/Hercule in Alceste with Gardiner, last year, and I still wonder whether he did, or whether I was falling briefly asleep each time he opened his mouth. Left no trace on my neurons.
Alan Richards wrote (March 21, 2001):
< PK wrote: I agree with you re Henschel (bass in Herreweghe II) : a colourless performance. >
< Simon Roberts wrote: Me too; but he's not as bad as Gardiner's what'sisname. >
< PK wrote: Sis name is Cornelius Hauptmann, and it's incredible how fast he declined >
Alan Richards responds: Gentlemen, gentlemen - what on earth can you possibly have against Cornelius Hauptmann? I for one find his performance thoroughly satisfying (which is strange because Mr. Roberts and I are usually in agreement on such matters!).
Are you sure you're not getting muddled with JEG's bland baritone, Olaf Bar, who he also employs in his SMP? If you're not, how can you rate Herr Hauptmann bellow Herr Henschel? Surely the voice is just right for Bach; lower and warmer than most baritones, but not too dark or operatic.
Simon Roberts (March 23, 2001):
(To Alan Richards) Not muddled at all - Bär is a far superior singer, at least to these ears, which find Hauptmann's voice tonally drab and in this case put to unimaginative use (unlike Gardiner's Entfuehrung, where he compensates for not being a bass by at least acting Osmin rather well). Compare Hauptman with Kooy (Herreweghe I) in "mache dich" if you can...
SMP in NYC
Galina Kolomietz wrote (April 9, 2001):
Yesterday I attended a staged production of Bach's St. Matthew's Passion at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, with the following:
Evangelist - Paul Agnew
Jesus - Andrew Schroeder
S - Suzie LeBlanc
A - Daniel Taylor
Mz - Phyllis Pancella
T - Richard Clement
B - Stephen Varcoe
Conductor - Paul Goodwin
Direction - Jonathan Miller
English singing translation by Robert Shaw
This is going to be a very brief review b/c I have so much work to do, but I have to share this with someone or else I'll keep thinking about it all day and won't get any work done.
This was a fabulous production. The performance was held at the restored Harvey Theatre. The Harvey Theatre has an interesting atmosphere: the building was out of use for a number of years and came to a complete disrepair. When they decided to reopen it, they cleaned it up, installed air-conditioning, new cable etc., but otherwise let the building have a look of artistic dilapidation of the kind that you might encounter when visiting old ruins. It was a very good place to tell the old biblical story. The acoustic seemed very good too.
The singers and instrumentalists were arranged into a large circle on the stage, with some of them actually sitting with their backs to the audience. The chorus remained on stage (mainly seated) during the entire performance. All performers wore decidedly casual clothing. The singing was in English. The performers moved about the stage freely, but overall the production was surprisingly static.
I couldn't help but think back to the staged production of St. John's Passion, staged by Deborah Warner (I think that's the name...) that I attended last year in London. I expected the two productions to be conceptually alike but they were actually quite
different. The evangelist in the Warner production was a constant fixture during all of the events on stage - he sang with the choruses and remained on stage during solo arias, sort of illustrating the emotional stories of the arias with gestures and facial expressions. He wasn't always in your face but he was always there which gave the production a certain documentary flavor - like a voiceover behind some live footage on the news (it also made the production seem more "staged" than it actually was).
The evangelist in the Miller production was more of a traditional storyteller - he gave the context and told the contours of the story and then stepped aside to let the other performers reenact the events. When he wasn't singing he sat quietly in the corner and
sometimes even left the stage. He sang the final scene not on the stage at all, but in one of the side aisles in the middle of the audience. If the Warner production could be compared to a documentary, this was more like an educational program in which the
host's narration is followed by clips from feature films.
Both approaches worked. Still, like I said, I thought that the Miller production did not have enough physical movement - for a "staged" production, that is. But for the absence of coats 'n tails and evening dresses, this wasn't that much different from a
concert performance. But then who cares? It was powerful anyway.
The music was great with or without the visuals. The singing was almost uniformly superb. Paul Agnew was a wonderful evangelist. His singing was a bit heavier than I expected, but it was nuanced and perfectly phrased. Andrew Schroeder as Jesus was a powerful presence. His voice was somewhat heavy but nice in timbre and well controlled (interestingly, conductor Paul Goodwin and Andrew Schroeder wore very similar outfits... I don't know if that was done on purpose but it sort of made Jesus ever-present even when he wasn't on stage).
Suzie LeBlanc was replacing Heidi Grant Murphy who was indisposed. To me, Suzie's participation was a real bonus. I have nothing against Heidi Grant Murphy but
she doesn't do anything for me. Suzie LeBlanc, on the other hand, is one of my favorite sopranos. She sounded very Emma-Kirkbyesque. It was wonderful. Dan
Taylor was on top form. His voice was fuller than usual (but without much vibrato), smoothly produced and absolutely brilliant at the top. Tears were flowing down my cheeks as he sang "God have mercy" (Erbarme dich) - this was the best rendition of this aria I've ever heard (and this was the only place during the performance where I wept... During the Warner production I started weeping when they arrested Jesus was didn't dry up until they broght out the stupid live lamb at the end - it was impossible not to laugh. I'm sad to report that the live lamb will be there again when the production returns next year...)
Mezzo Phyllis Pancella was pretty good, although a bit too plummy for my tastes. She sand three arias including the Golgotha (Dan said he didn't want it). Bass Stephen Varcoe was in better voice than I've heard him recently. He gave a very strong performance. Tenor Richard Clement was something of a letdown - a soggy, warbling voice. But even he showed himself capable of some very beautiful pianissimi.
Overall, this was a wonderful experience.
P.S. I anybody has any comments, I won't be able to answer b/c I'll be traveling all week.
Aryeh Oron wrote (April 9, 2001):
(To Galina Kolomietz) It is a fascinating review. I can only envy at your experience, because in Israel we have the opportunity to hear SMP or SJP performed live only every 5 or 10 years. Correct me if I am mistaken, Ehud.
Daniel Hobbs wrote (April 9, 2001):
(To Galina Kolomietz) I was planning to go, but, like with so many of the wonderful cultural offerings here in NYC, it slipped my mind and now it's too late--or is it? Are there going to be more performances? Thanks,
Galina Kolomietz wrote (April 9, 2001):
(To Daniel Hobbs) Yes, there are still several performances remaining. Look here for the dates: http://www.bam.org Everything is sold out but don't be discouraged - there are always people selling tickets on the street (in fact, I was onof them b/c a friend couldn't come).
Ehud Shiloni wrote (April 10, 2001):
(To Aryeh Oron) I have attended TWO live performances of the SJP in Israel over the past three years:
In January 1999 with Suzuki and the BCJ [and with Gerd Tuerk as a fantastic evangelist]
In early 1998 with the Jerusalem Camerata [Avner Biron conducting] and the Kouranda [sp?] Choir from Belgium with Eric Van Nevel [and a rather dull selection of soloists].
I am not aware of an SMP live performance in recent years, but I am not really well-informed about the concert scene here.
BTW: I just received the DVD of the SJP which Suzuki/BCJ performed in Tokyo on July 28th 2000 - could serve as a nice substitute for a live concert.
Johan van Veen wrote (April 10, 2001):
(To Ehud Shiloni) That's Currende.
Ehud Shiloni wrote (April 10, 2001):
(To Johan van Veen) Thanks for the help on the correct spelling, John.[And, BTW, I did like the sound of this choir]
Continue to Part 4
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