Anna Magdalena Notenbüchlein BWV 508-523
General Discussions

Bist Du bei mir

Bob Heath wrote:
"'Bist du bei mir' (BWV 508) is a love song (with a rather odd text) found in the Anna Magdalena Notebook. It's attributed to G.H. Stölzel and is scored for soprano and continuo. It's available in a number of editions and arrangements."

Meyer Veronika wrote (July 15, 1996):
[To Bob Heath] In my opinion the text of "Bist Du bei mir" is not odd! It is about love which does not end with the dead of the beloved.

Michael Zapf wrote (November 5, 2000):
The "be-thou-with-me" thread is gone from the archive, so I have to re-enter it for this message. I asked Chris Hogwood who is heading a team that is sorting the Kiev discovery, whether the Stölzel song is amongst the lot, and he came back stating "The answer is that I don't as yet know, but am waiting for a copy of the catalogue to arrive. If I find it, I will let you know (but there are c.6000 pieces to go through and they are NOT alphabetical, alas)." So let's wait a little longer, and then we will finally.

John E. Prussing wrote (May 14, 2001):
I heard Bist du bei mir performed today by tenor and organ. It seems very familiar, but I cannot place it. What is the original source in Bach's music? And was it originally written for tenor? Did Bach recycle it in later works?

David McKay wrote (May 14, 2001):
[To John E. Prussing] I saw a copy in The Children's Bach, I think.

Christophe Chazot wrote (May 14, 2001):
It is registered as BWV 508 (4) in the 'Musicalische Gesang-Buch' of Georg Christian Schemelli. In this version, the melody is told to have been written by Bach. You can get it on CD in "Geistliche Lieder Johann Sebastian Bach 1685-1750"

Larigot records (Nederland) CD LAR.801, with Hanneke Kaasschieter (sopraan) and Piet Kiel Jr. (organ).

I suppose other recordings are available of this book of Schemelli.

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 14, 2001):
[To John E. Prussing] Bist du bei mir is not by Bach, but by Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel.

Michael Zapf wrote (May 15, 2001):
Guess we should establish an FAQ page for this, because the song is liked by so many, that questions about it keep reoccurring:

1) In 1957, when Georg von Dadelsen prepared the NBA edition of the Anna Magdalena Notebook where this song appears, Max Schneider reported to him that he remembered having seen the song in the Berlin Singakademie archives in 1915. These archives were lost in 1945, but Schneider's private notes stated that it was part of a set of songs by Stölzel, and that its original setting was for soprano voice, accompanied by two violins, viola and BC. Dadelsen added this discovery to the NBA critical report, p. 124, and ever since the provenience has been faithfully reported by the various Schmieder catalogues.

2) Why has the song not been banned into the Anhang? Because it could very well be, like with some of the Schemelli songs, that the bass line is Bach's.

3) Part, or all of, the Singakademie archives have been rediscovered in Kiev, and we know that Stölzel is represented there. His work is not the focus of the team that is sifting through the Kiev lot, because its CPE Bach treasures are much more important, but Christopher Hogwood who heads the task force promised me he would inform me once he stumbled into BWV 508. Guess we will have to wait until then.

John E. Prussing wrote (May 15, 2001);
[To Michael Zapf] Thanks for this detailed report. I received an email and a response here saying that it was composed by Stölzel, but no additional information, such as where it appears in Bach.

< 2) Why has the song not been banned into the Anhang? Because it could very well be, like with some of the Schemelli songs, that the bass line is Bach's. >
This (Gottfried Heinrich, 1670-1749, I'm told) Stölzel was an older (by 15 years) contemporary of Bach. Is there more information about him, such as where he lived and worked, etc.?

< 3) Part, or all of, the Singakademie archives have been rediscovered in Kiev, and we know that Stvlzel is represented there. His work is not the focus of the team that is sifting through the Kiev lot, because its CPE Bach treasures are much more important, but Christopher Hogwood who heads the task force promised me he would inform me once he stumbled into BWV 508. Guess we will have to wait until then. >
Yes, that will be interesting.

Michael Zapf wrote (May 16, 2001):
John E. Prussing wrote:
< Is there more information about him, such as where he lived and worked, etc.? >
At his time the man was very famous - Mizler placed him above Bach in his list of leading German composers. He was the time's biggest expert on recitativo composition, and like Bach, he was a member of the Societät der Musikalischen Wissenschaften. Bach himself valued his music, and he included his partia in g-min in the Friedemann notebook, and he added a minuet trio of his own to it. For more details, see the (fascinating) article in the New Grove.

Hell Spree wrote (Maay 16, 2001):
< Bach himself valued his music, and he included his partia in g-min in the Friedemann notebook, and he added a minuet trio of his own to it. >
For what it's worth, there's a recording of that on Troeger's third volume of clavichord recordings on Bach's keyboard works.

Bist du bei mir

Rien Pranger wrote (March 20, 2000):
I just bought a CD with various artists. One of them is the Dutch alt Aafje Heynis. She sings of J.S. Bach "Bist du bei mir".

Please help me with the BWV-number?

Johan van Veen wrote (March 21, 2000):
[To Rien Pranger] BWV 508

Philip Collins wrote (March 21, 2000):
(To Rien Pranger) You'll find it at Dave's JS Bach site:
http://www.jsbach.org/bwv508.html
Bach Werkeverzeichnis #508

Anna M

Harry Steinman wrote (June 28, 2000):
Any suggestions for the Anna Magdalena Notebook? I'm not at all familiar with the work and the title is certainly intriguing.

PS I strongly prefer keyboard works on the piano rather than harpsichord. I hope the purists will suffer my dalliance with a non-authentic keyboard!

Steven Langley Guy wrote (June 28, 2000):
A Selection from the Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
Performed by: Elly Ameling, Gustav Leonhardt, Hans-Martin Linde & Tölzer Knabenchor
DEUTSCHE HARMONIA MUNDI GD 77150 (1 CD)
__________________________________________________

Inventions and Sinfonias (Complete) + Fragments from the Anna Magdalena Notebook
Performed by: Janos Sebestyan, piano
NAXOS 8.550679
__________________________________________________

As you are well aware, the Anna Magdalena Notebook contains various pieces of music for domestic music making. My guess is that pianists would only be interested in the keyboard works in this collection rather than the songs. They may even find the keyboard music a little too "infra dig" for a concert pianist! Especially considering that the harpsichord music in this work is somewhat didactic in nature. The DHM recordings is nice and I've heard some of it but I cannot speak for or against the NAXOS recording and the Anna M. stuff may be only a "filler" at the end? Others may know!

I guess that any comprehensive recording of the Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook would feature a harpsichord or a clavichord, as this instrument also has to act as a continuo instrument in the songs.

Did not the Linde Consort record the whole thing on two CD's some years ago or am I imaginithis? The CPO label may have a new recording in the "pipeline" - it's the sort of thing that would show up on this label.

Sybrand Bakker wrote (June 28, 2000):
(To Harry Steinman) Only as long as you don't apply derogatory labels to us, as we don't do that to you.

Harry Steinman wrote (June 29, 2000):
(To Sybrand Bakker) Don't believe I've ever used a "D" label, whether for HIP, non-HIP, purists, impurists...even the 'other' German composers whose names also begin with "B"!

Ludwig van Beethoven wrote (June 29, 2000):
(To Sybrand Bakker) Thank you Sybrand! Those of us who are familiar with Harry would stay this is nothing unusual for him but maybe us.

Anne Smith wrote (June 29, 2000):
(To Harry Steinman) CD Now has one recording listed. Go to CD Now. On the Search choose Album Tittle. Then type in Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook. There you will find a CD with 20 pieces from the Notebook along with some other Bach. The pianist is Joao Martin. Does anybody know anything about him?

Anna M is indeed intriguing. Lovely pieces and many of them are quite tricky to play properly. Unfortunately this work (along with the Inventions) is usually only seen by teachers as student exercises. They are used a lot for competitions and exams, very often by students who have not developed the necessary technique to manage the articulation. I have heard Anna M murdered so often by kids that I cringe when I hear her name.

If you find a good recording, please let us know.

John Graves wrote (June 29, 2000):
Don't forget McGegan's recording with Lorraine Hunt. It's the only one I have so I can't compare with the others, but I do enjoy it. McGegan/Hunt play a selection of works from the 2^nd AMB music book, I believe. McGegan plays both harpsichord and clavichord on it.

Simon Crouch wrote (June 29, 2000):
(To Harry Steinman) At the risk of being pedantic, there are two A-M notebooks, so I presume that you're referring to the later (1725) version. The 1722 version is available in the Hanssler complete set (92.135) played by Mario Videla on Harpsichord, clavichord and organ [five French suites + miscellaneous rarities, BWV 841, 991, 728 and 573]. If you want the rarities, this is your only choice (and it's reasonably well done). If you want the French suites on piano then look elsewhere! (Hewitt, for example).

As for the 1725 version, then on the piano the Naxos version (I think) is your only choice. There are several other selections (already mentioned) that are fine but if you want a complete version, then I advise waiting for the release of the Hanssler set!

Kirk McElhearn wrote (June 29, 2000):
(Regarding the Hänssler release of AMB) This has already been released on Hänssler, a couple of months ago, at least.

Simon Crouch wrote (July 30, 2000):
(Regarding the Hanssler release of AMB) The UK releases are trailing the rest of the world quite badly. Odd, it always seems to be the other way around!

Diederik Peters wrote (July 30, 2000):
There is a complete recording (2-CD's) on the Nonesuch label. I believe Igor Kipnis is the harpsichordist.

Anna Magdalena Notebook

Hell Spree wrote:
I saw a relatively old set of two CD's from the label Nonesuch of Bach's Anna Magdalena Notebook. The primary performer is Igor Kipnis. I was tempted to get it, but I'm still looking around for a complete notebook set. Does anyone know if the set I'm referring to is the complete notebook?

Dave J.G. wrote (August 21, 2000): 2:13
(To Hell Spree) That set is not quite complete. It omits recordings for the French Suites and the Partitas which are common enough. It also omits a couple of fragmentary works. Other than that, it seems fairly complete and includes both books. The contents of these books are available at: http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

Hell Spree wrote (August 21, 2000): 2:48
(To Dave J.G.) Ah! thanks. Looks as if I'll pick it up tomorrow.

John Hartford wrote (August 21, 2000): 2:15
(To Hell Spree) It is the complete set except he plays only one of the French Suites as they are recorded so often elsewhere. Several of the Suites are part of the notebook.

Somebody wrote:
Hänssler has issued literally complete set of AMB: 1722 (1CD) & 1725 (2CD's). I compared it with Bärenreiter's music edited by G.V.Dadelsen, and found not a single fragment was omitted. Besides, the performance is excellent IMO.

Hell Spree wrote (August 21, 2000): 16:29
You mean including the French Suites and Partitas? Are they played on piano or period instruments?

Dave J.G. wrote (August 27, 2000): 5:55
(To Hell Spree) I just found a review of the Hänssler AMB Notebook at:
http://inkpot.com/classical/bachanna1725.html

Bach's Anna Magdalena Book 1725 from Hänssler

Donald Satz wrote (February 2, 2001):
Bach prepared three Clavier Books for home performance and enjoyment. The first was for his son Wilhelm Friedemann, the second for his wife Anna Magdelena, and third also for Anna. This last book was prepared in 1725. It isn't often recorded complete, but Hänssler is doing the honors on a 2-disc set (Hänssler 92.136). Michael Behringer plays harpsichord and organ, Sibylla Rubens is the soprano, and Johannes-Christoph Happel sings baritone. Behringer and Rubens have the major roles; there is one song for Happel and one piece using a small ensemble of singers.

What's in the 1725 Book? It's loaded with good stuff. First, not all the music is by Bach; other composers include CPE Bach, Petzold, Couperin, Stolzel, Hasse, and Bohm. There are choral pieces, arias, menuets, polonaises, marches, etc. Perhaps best of all, the 1725 Book has early versions of two of Bach's Partitas for Harpsichord (A/E minor), French Suite No. 1, three movements from the 2^nd French Suite, the Aria in G which forms the aria in the Goldberg Variations, a great aria from BWV 82, and even the C major Prelude from WTC I.

Not long ago I bought a single disc of selections from the 1725 Book on Analekta featuring soprano Karina Gauvin and Luc Beauséjour on harpsichord. I have found this issue rewarding and also anticipated comparing the Hänssler to an Harmonia Mundi selections disc featuring Lorraine Hunt and McGegan. I can't find the damn thing, and I'm blaming my dog General Jackson - no medals for him today. But that's okay, because the Analekta
disc is very fine.

Sibylla Rubens is a wonderful singer for intimate surroundings. She is more serious than Karina Gauvin; I love them both. Behringer splendidly accompanies Rubens on either organ or harpsichord. The aria that really bowled me over is one attributed to Stolzel. It is gorgeous music realized so well by Rubens. She is also superb in the soprano aria from BWV 82 with an intimate organ by her side.

I am less enthralled with Michael Behringer. He tends toward angular performances with some choppiness. Also, his expressiveness can be on the low side. The choppy problem manifests itself a great deal in the French Suite movements, particularly the Allemandes. There is a lack of depth in both Partitas although the performances are easy to enjoy. On the plus side, his Prelude in C major from WTC I and the Aria in G are thoroughly rewarding. Also, his CPE Bach harpsichord solos are perfectly quirky and varied; this music is made for Behringer. I also shouldn't forget the Francois Couperin Rondeau which is lovely French music that Behringer obviously indentifies with.

A very important consideration in evaluating this set is the realization that the music is placed in an intimate family setting. I mentioned some depth problems that I noticed in Behringer; those decline in significance when putting oneself in Bach's home. And I feel that's the crucial thing a listener has to do in order to take in everything that this Clavier Book has to offer. Atmosphere m!

Don's Conclusion: The music's great, Rubens is great, Behringer is easily good enough, and the entire production fully captures the intimate and uplifting scene of the Bach family enjoying a musical evening. Is the Anna Magdalena Book 1725 an essential acquisition? Perhaps not, in that the best music in the Book can be found through other means. From another viewpoint, one which I share, this represents an opportunity to listen to an approximation of an evening's musical experiences at the Bach home. That's as close to Bach as I'm ever going to get, and I deeply appreciate it. So I consider the Book essential, and the Hanssler set a wonderful way to go back in time and join the Bachs. Buy the Analekta slections also. Their differences are significant and represent alternative styles, not differences in quality. If you have the bucks, add the Ameling on DHM and the Hunt on Harmonia Mundi. Then everybody's happy except for me. I'm holding my Harmonia Mundi disc in my hand and looking at gouges and other disgusting indications of a dog on the loose. The General is going to be formidable opposition.

I know I'm yapping much about this new dog. It's just that I never had such a big animal. My wife wanted a lap dog, I said no to those little "rats", and she falls in love with the big guy at the Humane Society facility. I love him now also, so the General and I need to have a serious discussion. If possible, I'll have to outsmart him. My major advantage is that his attention span is shorter than mine.

John B. wrote (February 3, 2001):
(To Donald Satz) I'm a pianist and enjoyed reading your comments. I have a question. I am very familiar with the third family book (which is also the second one for Anna Magdalena) of 1725 and I'm also very familiar with the first family book of two and three part inventions for his son. But what is the "SECOND" book of music in between these?? I see this mentioned in books about Bach occasionally too. It is the first book of music dedicated to Anna Magdalena. Is this score in print ? What is it comprised of ? Where can one obtain it?

Donald Satz wrote (February 3, 2001):
(To John B.) Book 2 is an autograph manuscript and it has been published. Hanssler has also released Book2 on cd no. 92135 performed by Mario Videla on harpsichord and organ. What's in it? I don't know exactly but assume it has some light music in addition to pieces we would know better from other sources.

Bach's poems (Little notebook of Anna Magdalena)

Gene Herron wrote (February 11, 2001):
Boris Smilga wrote:
< This is, strictly speaking, out of range of discussion of this group, but it looks like there's nothing more relevant. As it is known, old Bach also wrote poetry, though privately and in a secret journal. I'm curious to know what they look like. I generally prefer reading poetry in the language of the original (when I know it, of course, which is the case with German). I would much appreciate if somebody shared some information about where I can find Bach's poems - preferedly in German. If they're available at all, that is. >
There is a collection of poems accompanying the Teldec CD of the "Little Notebook of Anna Magdelina" (catalog 4509-91183-2). One poem concerns the metaphors between a person's life and that of a tobacco pipe.

Another, which is truly charming is "If you would give your heart to me"

"If you would give your heart to me you must set about it in secret so that no one else knows what we are thinking.

Our love must always be kept from others, so lock your greatest joys in your heart.

Be careful and say nothing and remember that walls have ears. Love inwardly and give nothing away to the world outside. You must give no grounds for suspicion; dissimulation is needed.

It is enough, my life, to be sure of my word"

Demand no lovesick looks. Envy has many snares to catch us off of our guard. You must not open your heart but keep your affections concealed.The pleasure that we enjoy must always remain a secret.

Being too free and indulging ourselves has too often brought us danger. We must come to an understanding since a false heart's eye keeps watch.

You must bear in mind what I've already said; If you'd give your heart to me, you set about it in secret"

The German verse, which accompanies this translation, does seem to have a rhyme structure. I don't speak much German so I do not know if its good poetry. The meaning, however, is quite clear and belies this idea of the man as a fugue machine.

I don't know who wrote this poem, Sebastian or Anna Magdelina or if they copied it from another source. I'm confident that someone out here knows..

The music is quite good. Tragicomedia realizes the notebook with family oriented instruments of the time. I am not sure if it's the best possible reproduction but I enjoy it.

Musette in D

Thomas Boyce wrote (November 11, 2001):
Anyone know where this little piece comes from, and for what instrument is it written?

Michael Grover wrote (November 13, 2001):
[To Thomas Boyce] It is from the Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach. Here's some information on it:
http://www.jsbach.org/bwvanh126.html
Looks like it was probably not written by J.S., hence the BWV number of Anhang 126. I could be wrong, but I think everything in the Notebook is for harpsichord. Anyone else know better than me?

Bradley Lehman wrote (November 14, 2001):
[To Michael Grover] There are quite a few vocal pieces in there, too. And many of the keyboard pieces are more effective on clavichord than harpsichord.

The booklet for the Kipnis/Blegen/Luxon/Meints set has the smallest type I have ever seen in a CD booklet. What is it, 4-point type? 3? I have to use a magnifying glass to read it, and I haven't hit 40 yet.

Speaking of the Anna Magdalena Notebook: the single CD by Tragicomedia (Teldec 91183) is a necessity. If you have only one disc of Bach, any Bach, maybe this should be the one. Their arrangements are so tasteful, and so beautifully played and sung, nothing else matters.

Donald Datz wrote (November 14, 2001):
[To Bradley Lehman] It certainly is a world of different tastes. The Tragicomedea disc is a fine one, but there are hundreds of other Bach recordings I'd rather own; that includes those by the fearful Watchorn, boring Moroney, and cold fish Tureck. I'm laughing as I write this, because it is a wonder to me how two people can have such different tastes.

At the other end, Rubsam seems to be a preference in common. AND, I've been having a great time enjoying the Parmentier "Stylus Phantasticus". It's the first Wildboar disc I've bought that plays properly on all my audio systems. I'm jinxed with this company.

What does the outside world think of Céline Frisch?

Klavierbuchlein fur Anna Magdalena Bach

James Whiskeychan wrote (July 5, 2002):
I am new to this group.

Does anyone know of a recording of the complete Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook? I have bits and pieces, but not the whole thing. I prefer piano, but I listen to harpsichord and clavichord as well.

Kirk McEhearn wrote (July 5, 2002):
[To James Whiskeychan] There is a pretty good recording on Hänssler, by Michael Behringer, playing harpsichord and organ, with the arias sung as well. It's not earth-shattering - which is, in part, because of the music, much of which is simple, but a nice recording.

Bradley Lehman wrote (July 6, 2002):
[To Kirk McElhearn] Another good 2CD set, though not as complete, is by Igor Kipnis and friends on Nonesuch.

But I think the essential single CD of representative AMB music is the one by Tragicomedia, on Teldec. It's gorgeous.

James Whiskeychan wrote (July 6, 2002):
[To Kirk McElhearn & Bradley Lehman] Thank you Bradley and Kirk. I'll look for the ones on Teldec and Haenssler..

< There is a pretty good recording on Haenssler, by Michael Behringer, playing harpsichord and organ, with the arias sung as well. It's not earth-shattering - which is, in part, because of themusic, much of which is simple, but a nice recording. >
Yes, Kirk, these pieces are all relatively simple to play compared to say the WTC, but there is no easy Bach. Take for example the first Menuet, BWV Anh 113, playing the notes is child's play, making these notes sound like a baroque menuet is not.

Anna Magdalena Notebook

James Whiskeychan wrote (July 6, 2002):
[To Kirk McElhearn & Bradley Lehman] Thank you Bradley and Kirk for your recommendations.

BTW, there really is very little Bach that is easy to play. Yes, the pieces in the AMN are easier than say, the WTC. The notes are often easy, but making a menuet sound like a baroque menuet can be tricky.

Bradley Lehman wrote (July 8, 2002):
[To James Whiskeychan] James (and others), you might also be interested in my own recording of two of the minuets (G major and G minor) and three of the polonaises from the Anna Magdalena Bach book. Those are recorded on clavichord and are on two different CDs: "On a Cotangent" and "Dances with Clavichord". Info about both is at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/cds.html

Kirk wrote a review of "On a Tangent" and "On a Cotangent" at MusicWeb:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2001/Nov01/tangent.htm

Letting the music sound like the appropriate type of dance is one of my highest goals...

Question / 'Bist du bei mir' BWV 508

Pieter Pannevis wrote (October 6, 2002):
I searched the files, asked google and still are not where I want to be! I still returning over an over in my mind to an aria ( probably soprano) :Gehest Du mit mir, so gehe ich im Freude.

Can anyone help me out here please !

Bach ist Bach !

Juozas Rimas wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Pieter Pannevis] Search Texts of Bach's Vocal Works at
http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/search.html
I couldn't find your text there though.

Roland Wörner wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Pieter Pannevis] Maybe from "Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena Bach": "Bist du bei mir, geh ich mit Freuden zum Sterben und zu meiner Ruh" BWV 508, attr. Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel ? Aria for Soprano and Bc.

Riccardo Nughes wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Pieter Pannevis] Maybe "Bist du bei mir" from the Klavierbuchlein für Anna-Magdalena.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 6, 2002):
Pieter Pannevis asked about the origin of:
< Gehest Du mit mir, so gehe ich im Freude >
I concur with the suggestions made by Riccardo, Juozas and Roland:

The origin is most likely: BWV 508 ‘Bist du bei mir, geh ich mit Freuden’ (Not by Bach despite the BWV number)

A somewhat similar thought is found in the soprano recitative BWV 94/4 which reads:

>>Ach, führe mich, o Gott, zum rechten Wege,
Mich, der ich unerleuchtet bin,
Der ich nach meines Fleisches Sinn
So oft zu irren pflege;
Jedoch gehst du nur mir zur Seiten, = [Gehest du mit mir - 'If you go/walk with me']
Willst du mich nur mit deinen Augen leiten,
So gehet meine Bahn = ['my path will lead to heaven']
Gewiß zum Himmel an.<<

Alpha H. Walker wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Roland Wörner] Yes, that is what I was thinking of too, not actually written by Bach at all.

Pieter Pannevis wrote (October 6, 2002):
Thank you all so much for the help provided. It is indeed as suggested (as i found out later with your help) from "Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena Bach": "Bist du bei mir, geh ich mit Freuden zum Sterben und zu meiner Ruh" BWV 508, attr. Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel ? Aria for Soprano and Bc.

Thank you all for having a good end to a sunday !

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Pieter Pannevis] There are at least 54 recordings of 'Bist du bei mir' BWV 508 to listen to (or to choose from), starting with Blanche Marchesi in a recording from 1906 (probably the earliest recording of any of Bach's vocal works, because those days the piece was assumed to be composed by Bach) and (almost) ending with the 15 years old Chartlotte Church in a recording done last year.

You can find them all in the following pages of the Bach Cantatas Website:
Complete recordings of AMN:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523.htm
Recordings of BWV 508 only:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523-Rec2.htm

If any of the members is aware of a recording I have missed, please inform me.

Pieter Pannevis wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thank you my friend. I enjoyed it finding again!

I've got a recording by Elly Ameling, wondering Aafje Heynis sung it or for that matter Kathleen Ferrier. And where is it on the Brilliant Classic thing with Leusink (well he did not do it actually he hired it somewhere) Youi should know ( you've got the book) Where is Kirk by the way?

Anyway: Take care and please give peace a chance, from Holland with high regards for all your Bach works !

Roland Wörner wrote (October 6, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Here is another complete recording of the Notenbüchlein. It's a nice performance, which unfortunately is not available on CD:

Marga Scheurich, harpsichord; Lotte Schädle, soprano; Raimund Gilvan, tenor; Dieter Brachmann, cello. Stuttgarter Hymnus-Chorknaben. Gerhard Wilhelm, conductor.
Saphir-Intercord, 1974. 2 LPs

Robert Killingsworth wrote (October 7, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron Since you asked . . .

Elly Ameling sings it again on 'Ein Liederabend' (EMI Electrola C 063-02375, 1973), with Dalton Baldwin on piano, in a program of songs ranging from Scarlatti to Satie.

I have, on an Angel LP, what I assume is the same performance by Janet Baker and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, N. Marriner cond. -- bc arranged for strings! -- as on the CD you list as M-15. It seems to be packaged differently, though: with no Handel, but with alto arias from cantatas BWV 190, BWV 129, BWV 34, BWV 6, BWV 161, BWV 11, Christmas Oratorio (BWV 248), Easter Oratorio (BWV 249), Magnificat (BWV 243) in D and St. John Passion (BWV 245). If not all of those are on the CD, I can supply the details.

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 7, 2002):
[To Robert Killingsworth] Thanks for the info.

< Elly Ameling sings it again on 'Ein Liederabend' (EMI Electrola C 063-02375, 1973), with Dalton Baldwin on piano, in a program of songs ranging from Scarlatti to Satie. >
Please send me the usual details and I shall update the relevant page.

< I have, on an Angel LP, what I assume is the same performance by Janet Baker and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, N. Marriner cond. -- bc arranged for strings! -- as on the CD you list as M-15. It seems to be packaged differently, though: with no Handel, but with alto arias from cantatas 190, 129, 34, 6, 161, 11, Christmas Oratorio, Easter Oratorio, Magnificat in D and St. John Passion. If not all of those are on the CD, I can supply the details. >

I have both the LP and the CD. The content of the LP is included in the 2-CD album.
See [4]at the page of Mariner's recordings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Marriner.htm

Thomas Shepherd wrote (October 7, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Aryeh, Here’s another one for your collection

Naxos Classical 8.557025 Passiontide : Music for Solace and Reflection
track 11. Bist du bei mir Emily Gray, soprano / Christopher Stokes, organ
http://web02.hnh.com/scripts/newreleases/naxos_cat.asp?item_code=8.557025&memberID=

Reviews
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"An impressive, intelligently programmed debut from a promising young soprano. ...Emily Gray produces the firm traditional sound of the Anglican choirboy, slightly hooty, seemingly all the more powerful from a female throat. Certainly to my ear this is 100 percent more like the voice of an angel than that of her much-publicised predecessor, and she uses this remarkable instrument with care and taste, obviously well-taught, and with imagination of her own and a rare ability to hit exposed notes cleanly with no upward slide. An excellent collection, the more welcome at Naxos price."

- Edward Greenfield, Gramophone June 2002

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Gray already sings like an angel. It's an extraordinarily pure voice"

* Geoff Brown, The Times (London), March 26, 2002
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I fear this may only be available in the United Kingdom but its a great showcase for Christopher Stokes, the Manchester Cathedral Choir and Emily Gray.

It would be fantastic to see this wonderful young soprano do some more Bach before her voice becomes too Omature¹. Perhaps Susuki......

Enrico wrote (October 8, 2002):
Visiting the page http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523.htm I notice that the info regarding the Teldec CD (n.7 in list) are not complete. For example in this CD there's also BWV508/509/515/517 plus others.Why not put the complete list of tracks?

Tragicomedia AMB / Schulmmert ein

Bradley Lehman wrote (November 4, 2002):
Pete Blue wrote:
< I agree with Brad that in the flute transcriptions, Hazelzet rules.
Very funny remark about his being music to listen to when half awake. When I am in that state, my favorite Bach at the moment is Tragicomedia's CD of the Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook. >
Yeah, especially the "Schlummert ein" part, the last track. What a gorgeous CD that was, Teldec 91183. Is it due back in print anytime?

Alpha Walker wrote (November 4, 2002):
[To Bradley Lehman] I just ordered it at Towerrecords.com!

Thomas Radleff wrote (November 5, 2002):
[To Bradley Lehman] Thank you, Brad,

for introducing this new category - of course me also I have my favourites being half asleep, for monday mornings aswell as for friday evenings, and for any mood and state of mind (who of our list members was it to recommend a certain oboe concert that he & his wife used to have along with "excessive love games on the sofa"? - not the worst way of listening...)

Marion Verbruggen´s cello / recorder suites were not bad for the half-asleep phase; those screaming overtones, on a low level, could be sizzling, and her extravagant rubato articulation can get you back to the ground again. But thank you for the link to Hazelet; I know & like his trio sonatas with Jacques Ogg.

Among my favourites for slumbering - not yet sleeping - are also Tajana N.´s recordings, almost for the same reason as for Pete: it´s like being at home at the fireside (which I don´t have); it´s the same case with Rübsam´s piano Partitas 825-30 - very intimate. And Rivera´s cello suites 1007-9 played with a chitarrone. A few AoF recordings, e.g. those from Phantasm (viol quartet) or Malgoire´s Grande Ecurie.

For me, most lute music is also fine for this state, e.g. Barto´s Weiss recordings. More off-topics: some Steve Reich (Eighteen Musicians), Haydn´s Notturni for Lira organizzata, and the Seven Last Words in the string quartet version - but you have to be prepared for the final earthquake, or make a program without it. And Mie Miki´s Scarlatti sonatas with an accordion.

Tragicomedia´s AMB Notebok has been distributed in Europe about a year ago at a bargain price in a Teldec-Japan rerelease, but with booklet only in japanese. Mmmmhh!! - though I´ve heard a few times, I´m surprised by the GV aria at one of the last tracks. Often I have the impression that anything with Andrew Lawrence-King in the continuo part turns to gold (but the recordings without him, with Stubbs and O´Dette, also are magnificient). And I think that´s the way how musicians in the baroque era treated any score, according to their own individual traditions and temperaments.

Bradley Lehman wrote (November 5, 2002):
[To Thomas Radleff] My recent half-sleep favorites have been:

- Anything with Hoppy Smith (especially the Narvaez vihuela disc, and lute music by Gaultier and de Visee)
- The afore-mentioned Hazelzet disc of 1007-1009 and 1013
- The Goldbergs played on harpsichord by Keith Jarrett
- Various KdF, as you've said...especially Savall's
- Mozart string quintets
- My own "The Serene Clavichord" disc
- Gould playing the Brahms intermezzi
- Andrew Rangell's "Recital of Intimate Works, vol 2"
- Ronn McFarlane's discs of Scottish lute music

Jim Morrison wrote (November 5, 2002):
[To Bradley Lehman] Don't forget the otherworldly double disc set "the passion of reason" by Sour Cream, a recorder trio group comprising of Frans Brüggen, Kees Boeke, Walter van Hauwe. Absolutely first rate set put out by that first rate label Glossa. There are even some odd fade in/fade outs that practically beg either to be listened to while falling asleep or waking up. This set was in my cd alarm clock for about a month a while back. Anyone that likes Savall, Andrew Lawrence-King, Hopkinson Smith, Verlet's Froberger, Hazelzet, etc, should give this set some serious consideration.

Trevor Evans-Young wrote (November 6, 2002):
[To Jim Morrison] Interesting subject,

The only Bach I used was the Musical Offering more for the music than a particular performance. The others;

-Arvo Part, Passio
-Leontyne Price, Puccini Heroines
-Scriabin, Last Piano Works, this one has been in my CD player the longest. I have been able to really understand the late sonatas by hearing them in a half-dream state.

Matthew Neugebauer wrote (November 6, 2002):
[To Trevor Evans-Young] If I get the question right, then just about anything will make my mind do odd things at night (and no, its not the stuff my classmates insert in their bodies in the morning), and music is the biggest one. I almost dread the reaction to this, but most Bach arias skip the "weird brain" stuff and knock me out, but that's my own problem.

Pete Blue wrote (November 6, 2002):
[To Matthew Neugebauer] Matthew's admission that most Bach arias "knock me out" reminded me of an especially appropriate choice for Bach To Listen To When Half Awake: BWV 170, "Vergnugte ruh, beliebte Seelenlust" ("Contented rest, beloved heart's desire"). Some of the ensuing verses are harsher and less appropriate, but this cantata provides the loveliest continuous 20 minutes of music imaginable, at least in my favorite version, the Herreweghe disc of solo alto cantatas with Andreas Scholl, Harmonia Mundi HMC 901644.

As with all of Herreweghe's Bach, my first impression is of an unruffled -- and maybe unrivaled -- surface beauty, though I hasten to add I don't think Herreweghe is superficial; rather, I think that for the sake of a beautiful sound he tends to underplay the dramatic (in contrast to Gardiner, who I feel OVERplays it). Moreover, unless you find even the greatest countertenor voices unlistenable, Scholl is unsurpassable.

The only objection to this performance might be that the dissonances of the second aria ("Wir jammem mich doch die verkehrten Herzen") are glossed over here compared to some other recordings. But that just reinforces my suggestion that this recording is the ideal unboring Bach lullaby.

Bradley Lehman wrote (November 7, 2002):
[To Pete Blue] Agreed, that Scholl/Herreweghe performance is all you say! But I also wouldn't want to be without Alfred Deller's 1954 recording (Vangua8106): with young Leonhardt, Harnoncourt, and Michel Piguet on oboe. That performance moves me more.

Pete Blue wrote (November 8, 2002):
[To bradley Lehman] Yes, and that is precisely what makes the Deller a poor candidate for the Half Awake Sweepstakes. Ditto the Janet Baker and the in-a-class-by-itself Maureen Forrester.

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (November 9, 2002):
[To Pete Blue] Surprisingly, no one proposed BWV82's second Aria, "Schlummert ein, ihr matten Augen" !!!!

The paradox is that it is SO intense, that it is more likely a sleepwalker's rejoicing than slumbering.

That special peace!!!. Damn it, what a composer!!.

The Richter/Fischer-Dieskau recording has no serious rival.

And what about the Goldbergs???: the main reason why I resist the rather fairy tale about the reason why they were composed, is that I can not imagine any scholar seriously posing that music like that was meant to make someone feel spleepy.

Alpha Walker wrote (November 9, 2002):
Pablo Fagoaga wrote:
< And what about the Goldbergs???: the main reason why I resist the rather fairy tale about the reason why they were composed, is that I can not imagine any scholar seriously posing that music like that was meant to make someone feel spleepy. >
I think it was trying to play them, that made one sleepy. I know when I practice them I get VERY tired!! :-)

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (November 9, 2002):
[To Alpha Walker] Yeah. They're quite "physical".

Me as an amateur player, just can play a few variations with enough dignity to enjoy the playing!! But I'm happy to manage the aria and the 1° variation. I wish I could face the harder ones with a bit of ease. Curiously, to the occasional player, the Aria is a specially rewarding achievement.

Discussions in the Week of December 12, 2004

Bradley Lehman wrote (December 14, 2004):
Anna Magdalena books

I see at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/ that the scheduled discussion this week is of Anna Magdalena Bach's notebooks.

It's excellent pedagogical material and delightful music for home use. I've played through all of it, and use it here frequently for enjoyment with my family. These collections offer a valuable picture of music-making in the Bach household. Of the recordings displayed at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523.htm
I have the Leonhardt, Kipnis, and Tragicomedia sets and I enthusiastically recommend all three as essential for listening and study: an inspiring level of work, in these pieces that merely look like trifles.

Reasonable background around these books is presented by pages 217-219 and 394-409 of Christoph Wolff's book Bach: The Learned Musician.

This is some very good music--elegant, well-balanced, tuneful, graceful--and not all of it is by Bach. That authorship (being not by Bach) isn't a derogatory comment about its value, but merely a statement of fact.

[this part of the message was removed]

If members want to learn more background around the music, that's what libraries and published musicological work are for. Let the credentialed teachers and researchers do their jobs in presenting that material. And, I feel, there is no more direct way to get to know these pieces musically than to play (and sing) through them, at whatever level of fluency one is able, oneself. It's music for children and adults to enjoy. It's music for participation, not merely consumption. Listen to the same music Bach's family did, by playing it and getting the guidance of a qualified teacher. Set up a harpsichord and clavichord, take lessons, and go to it. Copy some of it out by hand, to see how music notation works. Play and sing some of it at 3:00 a.m. to soothe a fussy child. That is, experience and learn this music the same way Anna Magdalena and the kids themselves did. That's what it's there for. We're fortunate that this important documentation from their family life still exists.

Pieter Pannevis wrote (December 14, 2004):
There is a great lot of expertise on this group and perhaps I do speak for a silent minority (Aryeh told me recently we are a lot of folks) that I looked forward to this discussion.

I have some vinyl and some Cd"s and consider the music as vividly painted by Mr.Lehman in his last paragraph quit correct, but that was only after scrolling down a lot of words after the first paragraph and I thought well here it comes; I will learn a bit more about this nice piece of music..

Alas!
I'm not so interested in which trench we are and for what reason: I'm here to learn more and I do think that's the reason most of us are here. May I offer another bible text not trying however to be funny as I do think it's really a shame that this group has come so far

You might remember the daring (traditional Jewish I think) way of the negotiating of Abraham with God about the fate of Nineveh. It's IMHO a splendid way to save souls and as said a most daring story.

Cannot we keep this list than for the few who really do like his (Bach's) music without falling into trenches like in WWI and not coming any further and getting into ending threads, shot at and a discussion that seems to be halted before it began.

I'm not aware of who is responsible for leading this thread into battle (as seems the custom reading Mr. Lehman lips), but I would carry on. I was really intrigued after the first paragraph and still am !

A next try Mr. Lehman if you please !

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (December 14, 2004):
Pieter Pannevis wrote:
< You might remember the daring (traditional Jewish I think) way of the negotiating of Abraham with God about the fate of Nineveh. It's IMHO a splendid way to save souls and as said a most daring story. >
The two stories, one on Abraham negotiating with God about the destruction of Sodom and the other about God dispatching Jonah to save Ninevah are not traditional Jewish precisely but rather biblical.

The last I heard Christians include the Jewish Bible in their Bibles along with other material. I have not read the post you refer to. I simply don't have the computer time to read most of the posts, esp. the long ones.

John Pike wrote (December 14, 2004):
Brad Lehman wrote:
< This is some very good music--elegant, well-balanced, tuneful, graceful--and not all of it is by Bach. That authorship (being not by Bach) isn't a derogatory comment about its value, but merely a statement of fact. >
I agree. Those 2 songs (by Stölzel?) mentioned by Thomas recently are particular gems. "Bist du bei mir" and "Willst du........"

Bradley Lehman wrote (December 14, 2004):
< I'm not so interested in which trench we are and for what reason: I'm here to learn more and I do think that's the reason most of us are here. May I offer another bible text not trying however to be funny as I do think it's really a shame that this group has come so far >
I have two long-thought-out reactions to this, and related issues. But because my thoughts in this regard are not welcome on-list, I've put them up to these two web pages instead.

About that Bible quote, and Bach's personal character....
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/bachs-character.htm

About dilettantes attacking the existence of expertise....
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/anti-expertise.htm

I would hope that members who respect and appreciate Bach's music will have some ideas to contribute about the Anna Magdalena notebooks. That was the primary purpose of my posting yesterday: to START that discussion that hadn't been started, according to the schedule. I apologize that it got so clouded up by my own personal feelings about being attacked interminably here. Those attacks do prevent me from being at my best behavior here, where I feel compelled to defend the art (and Bach's music and character in particular) against unreasonableness.

Thomas Shepherd wrote (December 16, 2004):
Bidu bei mir

I don't like breaking the law, but for THIS week only I've put Emily Gray/Christopher Stokes' Naxos recording of BWV 508 (M-53 on http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523-Rec2.htm) in my web public folder as a MP3: http://homepage.mac.com/revts.

Click on the"iDisk Public Folder( graphite).

We should be discussing something to do with the Anna Magdalena book this week - I really haven't any earth shattering things to say as I'm up to my neck in Christmas Carol services etc.

I know that I've really enjoyed the CD that this has come from. I know Emily's voice has changed now, but I hope others will enjoy the simplicity of the recording made nearly three years ago.

Bist Du Bei Mir [Beginners Bach]

Steven Foss wrote (October 11, 2005):
Among one of the subjects of converstion at the classical group (which I have made some enemies for my dislike of a Bartok Compostion) is a Post on the calling into doubt of the Authorship of Bist Du Bei Mir.

So far it the source of the a quotation by Karl Geiringer in reference to a manuscript by G.H. Stölzel that surfaces in 1945, only to disappear (destroyed?) at the end of WW 2 and so the post says hasn't been seen since.

I do know of Stoezel and Bach having made some form of acquaintance, and Bach did include a French Overture (Suite) in G minor in Notebook for W F Bach to which Bach wrote a trio, which is included later in the collections of short preludes.

Any thoughts, I can find no other reference other than books quoting the above.

PS Although I am one to fight a composition being arbitrarily thrown into the spurious pile, the piece is not typical of Bach's arias and the Bass line is rather "plodding", in the choir we use to say Bach was the Patron Saint of Basses, he always wrote such interesting melodies to sing (when I wasn't singing Counter Tenor, what's a Baritone to do?).

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 11, 2005):
[To Steven Foss] By mere coincidence, I have updated a few day ago the page of recordings of 'Bist du bei mir' BWV 508 at the Bach Cantatas Website: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523-Rec2.htm
The page includes now 71 different recordings of this pouplar song besides those included in complete AMN BWV 508-523 recordings. Among the new additions are renowned singers as Plácido Domingo, Marilyn Horne and Heldegard Behrens.

Of course, if anybody is aware of a recording I have missed, please inform me either through this ML or off-list.

If Thou Art Near

Jackie Barineau wrote (February 22, 2006):
Hi, Everyone - I'm wondering if there is sheet music available online for download of "If Thou Art Near" (Bist Du Bei Mir) for vocal/piano?

Thanks!

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 22, 2006):
[To Jacki Barineau] I believe this is your first message to the BCML. If so, welcome aboard! As to your question, you can find it at the bottom of the page:
http://www.carolinaclassical.com/articles/bach1.html

Jackie Barineau wrote (February 22, 2006):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thanks so much for the response, and yes, this is my first post, so thanks for the welcome, too! This is great! I am, however, looking for the English lyrics version of this aria and can't seem to find it anywhere! I sang it way back in college and no longer have the music for it. Any idea if the English lyrics can be found somewhere?!

Thanks again!

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 22, 2006):
[To Jacki Barineau] Here they are:
http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/get_text.html?TextId=382
http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWVanna.html

Jackie Barineau wrote (February 22, 2006):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thanks a bunch!

Boys, Bach and Brad Lehman's temperament

Eric Bergerud wrote (September 20, 2005):
A few weeks back we were discussing the merits or lack thereof of boys singing Bach. Someone directed attention to Jacob Lawrence, an Australian Wunderkind, trained by his parents who were both professional musicians. Most Record Company in Oz published a CD by Lawrence doing much of Anna Magdalena Bach's Book accompanied by his mother Elizabeth Anderson one of Australia's leading players of the keyboard. Despite the CD's photo that has little Jacob decked out in 18th century garb, most of the CD is solo keyboard, mostly harpsichord with some organ pieces. I wish I had something to compare this work to directly, but my Notebook is the wonderful version by the Tragicomedia ensemble which highlights multiple players and adult singers.

I can't say that young Jacob builds a powerful case for rushing boys back into the thick of Bach performance. I can't claim to understand precisely what his parents were trying to accomplish and what limits naturally exist when a boy soprano sings. That said, it struck me that the quality of the singing was all over the map. Jacob sings in 12 of the CD's 52 cuts, although a few are among the longest. I thought his rendition of Habe Gunug and Donnerwort were both very pleasing, certainly interesting. Other works were much less successful.

The CD is nevertheless extremely worthy in my opinion. Most of the CD is solo harpsichord employing Brad Lehman's temperament explained in some detail in the liner notes. According to the notes "The tuning system works well in all keys, as would be required to performed the Well-Tempered Clavier, whilst at the same time rendering to each tonality its own individual character or flavour." Far be it from me to second guess anyone on this subject. However, I found the harpsichord pieces played by Ms. Anderson uniformly satisfying: clear, bright and played with enthusiasm. It cost about an extra $2 to get the CD sent from Australia and it arrived quickly. Overall, I wish Jacob sang as well as his mother played, but the CD is well worth owning.

Bradley Lehman wrote (September 20, 2006):
Eric Bergerud wrote:
< Someone directed attention to Jacob Lawrence, an Australian Wunderkind, trained by his parents who were both professional musicians. Most Record Company in Oz published a CD by Lawrence doing much of Anna Magdalena Bach's Book accompanied by his mother Elizabeth Anderson one of Australia's leading players of the keyboard. Despite the CD's photo that has little Jacob decked out in 18^th century garb, most of the CD is solo keyboard, mostly harpsichord with some organ pieces. >
A couple of pages with further info about that album:

The company's advert: http://www.move.com.au/disc.cfm/3304

=====

My 9-June-06 remarks about this recording, on BachRecordings group:

Today I have received a new CD that was released last week: "Anna Magdalena Bach's Book" (1725). The publisher's advertisement is at: http://www.move.com.au/disc.cfm/3304

The harpsichordist is Elizabeth Anderson, who also plays organ for several of the solos and accompaniments: http://www.move.com.au/artist.cfm/124

The twelve vocal pieces are sung by Anderson's son, 12-year-old Jacob Lawrence, with a fine clear voice.

The instruments are two harpsichords by Alastair McAllister (from Hubbard kits), and a Rieger organ in Melbourne.

This recording includes the entire 1725 book, except the early version of the E minor partita (BWV 830). The three remaining suites here are the D minor and C minor "French" suites, and the A minor partita.

As most of the repeats are omitted, some pieces are less than a minute long. There are 52 tracks, 75 minutes. Three different recording locations were u. The miking perspectives and the acoustics change some as we go along, with the pieces being shuffled back together for a balanced flow. The longest piece, the aria "Schlummert ein" from Bach's cantata 52, is saved till the end.

The program notes are by Anderson and Martin Jarvis, discussing the background of the book. These present the conjecture that Anna Magdalena was not only a copyist for this book, but may have composed some of the pieces. Jarvis suggests the attribution of the "Goldberg Variations" aria and the C major prelude (of Well-Tempered Clavier book 1) to Anna Magdalena.

The harpsichord tuning is as I have described here: http://www.larips.com and there is an explanation in the booklet as well.

This is a beautifully performed program, and a delightful collection of everyday music from the Bach household. Listening to this it is easy to imagine sessions of fun at home, with any of the oldest boys or girls (or Anna Magdalena herself) singing the songs, and any of the family's keyboard players having a turn.

=====

Other recordings using this same tuning (there's a new Beethoven sonatas disc now!): http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/recordings.html

My summer 2006 article about the tuning: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/recordings.html

Rick Canyon wrote (September 20, 2006):
Eric Bergerud wrote:
< I wish I had something to compare this work to directly, but my Notebook is the wonderful version by the Tragicomedia ensemble which highlights multiple players and adult singers. >

I have one (largely) by the Thomanerchor available here: rondeau.de

which features many (tho not entirely) youthful performances. Many of the keyboard pieces are played on piano rather than harpsichord.

Bist Du bei mir [Beginners Bach]

Steven Foss wrote (October 26, 2007):
I have spent some time with the Hspchd L list over at Albany.edu (much to their chagrin and aggravation), and a recent posting brought up a familiar subject, the Bach/Stoeltzel debate over the Aria Bist Du Bei Mir.

Anna Magdalena notebook. On page(p. 124), from Dadelsen added the following: Supplement to NR. 25 (S.92) made during the printing of the critical report, the publisher of Professor Dr. Max Schneider, whereupon noticed that in a Manuscript. of the citizens of Berlin singing academy a Soprano aria "Bist du Bei mir" from Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel , whose melody is identical to that of our piano booklet (the Anna Magdelena Notebook). The Manuscript contains five airs for Soprano and accompanying instruments of Stölzel. Since they have been missing since the year 1945, we let the short notes follow here Max von Schneider from the year 1915. Perhaps they can contribute to the further identification of the song and its poet.

(Poor translation from German on my part)

The posts refer to a collection (found in Kiev?):

Title: Airs various comp. par Mr. Stoeltzel score, 6 Leaves. (11 described sides), fol., ms [ around 1760 ]

1. Er ist die Ursach meines Leidens (Soprano, Violin, Viola, Basso Continuo.)
2. Geht, ihr Küsse (Sopran, Violin, Basso Continuo.)
3. Mein Glücke steht in deinen Händen (Sopran, Violin, Viola, Basso Continuo.)
4. Bist Du bei mir, geh ich mich Freuden(the same melody, as found under the same name as the well known aria of J.S. Bach ; Soprano, 2 violins, Viola, Basso Continuo.)
5. Sage mir doch, werthes Glücke (Sopran, Violine, Viola, Basso Continuo.)"

I haven't had time to ask further about this "Kiev connection." The posts state that the Manuscript has been known for some years (and by no less an individual than C. Hogwood).

Until publication of the document, we won't know if Bach had transcribed a favorite piece into a 2 part arrangement. However, from the above Bach's authorship is further in doubt.

Bach evidently held Stoeltzel in high esteem; in the note book for W. F. Bach is a Suite in G minor(well actual title is Overture as in the French Overture) by G. H. Stoeltzel, to which Bach added an original Trio after the minuet. This trio usually is included in the collections of Keyboard Preludes by Bach.

Steven Foss wrote (January 3, 2008):
Follow Up on Stölzel and Bist Du Bei Mir

After a Hiatus (Holidays), I would like to update the BB group. I have the wonderful resource of the posters at Hpschd-L list at Albany U to thank.

My only comment is the "Bist Du Bie Mir" translations. It is literally translated as "Be Thou By Me." Maybe not as Poetic as Emily Ezust translation. See below after the updated Wikipedia Article.

For those who do not subscribe to the list, here is the fruits of one of the members labors as currently listed on Wikipedia:

"Bist Du Bei Mir.

Bist du bei mir (en: "If thou art nigh") (BWV 508) is an aria by the German composer Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel. The piece is often mistakenly attributed to Johann Sebastian Bach due to its inclusion in the 1725 Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach. The aria was part of the Stölzel opera "Diomedes oder die triumphierende Unschuld" that was performed in Bayreuth on Nov. 16, 1718. The opera score is lost. The aria had been part of the Berlin Singakademie music library and was considered lost, until it was rediscovered in 2000 in the Kiev Conservatory. The continuo part of BWV 508 is more agitated and continuous in its voice leading than the Stölzel aria. It is uncertain who provided it, as the entry in the Notebook is by Anna Magdalena Bach herself. In an essay in the Bach Jahrbuch 2002, Andreas Glöckner speculates that either she obtained the song from the inventory of the Leipzig Opera that had gone bankrupt in 1720, or that it simply was a favourite known to nearly everybody in Leipzig that was particularly suitable for "Hausmusik".[1]

The sheet music of the Stölzel aria is made available as a microfiche.[2]

^ Bach Jahrbuch 2002, pp. 172-174. This and the previous details are from the Glöckner article.
^ http://www.saur.de/index.cfm?lang=DE&ID=0000011322"

I don't mean to harp about the text's translation, however sometimes the direct meaning of the original German gets lost before it reaches English. A well known Cantata of Bach is know as Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring in English. The original German "Jesu Bleibet Meine Freude" directly translated is "Jesus Remain My Joy."

PS Here is the the text, Ms Ezust translation and following my High School Hamburg or Stage German translation. The gentle reader can make one's on decision on artistic license or if I am a nit picker. Her translation captures the intent; my translation tries to keep the German as intact as possible. Neither of our translations will win us any awards for being a Khalil Gibran.

Stölzel's Aria Text

Bist du bei mir, geh' ich mit Freuden
zum Sterben und zu meiner Ruh'.
Ach, wie vergnügt wär' so mein Ende,
es drückten deine lieben [schönen]1 Hände
mir die getreuen Augen zu!

If you are with me, then I will gladly go
to [my] death and to my rest.
Ah, how pleasant would my end be,
if your dear, fair hands shut
my faithful eyes!

Be thou by me, go I with Joy
to Death and to my Rest.
Oh, how comforted would be my End,
if thy belov'd, pretty Hands press
these, my faithful eyes close.

508 on organ only?

Michael G wrote (October 9, 2008):
Looking for recommendations of good recordings of BWV 508 (Bist du bei mir, from the AMB Notebook) for organ only.

Thanks

David Hitchin wrote (October 9, 2008):
[To Michael Gover] Well, perhaps it isn't by Bach at all, but ...

Try: http://www.klaasbolt.nl/CD-DVD.htm

Korall-en-Liedbwerkingen played by Klaas Bolt on the Muller organ at Haarlem. Intersound 1002, issued in 1988, and perhaps still available.

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 14, 2008):
[To Michael Gover] A comprehensive and updated discography of Bist du bei mir BWV 508 is presented at:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523-Rec2.htm
Among the 90 recordings you will be able to find several for organ only.
I hope it helps.

Discussions in the Week of July 4, 2010

Douglas Cowling wrote (July 3, 2010):
Week of July 4: Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach

"Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena Bach" BWV 508 - 523

BCML page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523.htm

Score: http://imslp.org/wiki/Notebook_for_Anna_Magdalena_Bach_%28Bach,_Johann_Sebastian%29

http://www.4shared.com/account/document/yuoaw3x1/Bach_-_Notebook_For_Anna_Magda.html

Commentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_for_Anna_Magdalena_Bach

Bach compiled two musical notebooks for his second wife Anna Magdalena Bach.

The 1722 Notebook contains keyboard music by Bach mostly written in his own hand. The manuscript is an important source for the French Suites. The difficulty of the collection varies from the simple Minuet in G to the mature demands of the suites. If Anna Magdalena played this repertoire, she was an accomplished keyboard player.

The 1725 Notebook is a wide-ranging compendium of vocal and keyboard music and gives an invaluable glimpse into the tastes and teaching materials of the Bach family.

A few general categories:

1) Keyboard pieces by Bach, most notably the partitas included in the Clavier-Übung.

2) Dance movements by CPE Bach, Petzold, Couperin and Hasse. These may have been used as teaching pieces. Was Anna Magdalena the teacher of her younger children? The older sons were obviously encouraged to add their own compositions to the collection.

3) Chorales. Were these used as singing exercises? at family prayers?

4) Chorale-Preludes for keyboard (manual-only organ?) Were these keyboard exercises? Serious pieces to play on Sunday at home instead of dances?

5) Several arias, most notably movements from Cantata BWV 82, ³Ich Habe Genug.² This would suggest that Anna Magdalena was an accomplished singer with whom Bach entrusted some of his greatest music. The diversity of vocal music suggests that she taught the younger children, almost certainly her daughters.

6) A secular aria in the buffo tradition of the "Peasant" and "Coffee" cantatas.

The collection contains what may be the most frequently-performed music of J.S. Bach: the ³Minuet in G² and the Aria, ²Bist Du Bei Mir². Alas, neither is by Bach.

1722 NOTEBOOK

The notebook contains the following works, most in Johann Sebastian's hand:

Five keyboard suites The first three are fragments of the pieces that are now known as the first three French Suites , BWV 812­814. The next two are complete suites, French Suites Nos. 4 and 5, BWV 815­816. The minuets of suites 2 and 3 are separated from the rest of their respective suites and were most probably added at a later date by Anna Magdalena Bach (they are almost certainly in her hand), some time before 1725.
Fantasia pro organo, unfinished, BWV 573. A short organ piece, 12 complete bars and the beginning notes of the 13^th bar.
Air with variations in C minor, unfinished, BWV 991. The first 10 bars feature coherent two-part writing, but the remaining 35 bars only have one voice written out.
³Jesus, meine Zuversicht², chorale prelude, BWV 728. A brief (9 bars) piece in three voices, features two sections with repeats for each.
³Minuet in G major², BWV 841 (not to be confused with Petzold's Minuet in G Major in the 1725 notebook). A short dance with simplistic two-part writing and two sections with repeats for each.

1725 NOTEBOOK

Keyboard partita in A minor, BWV 827. This is the third partita from Bach's set of Partitas for keyboard BWV 825­830, which was published in 1731 as the first volume of Clavier-Übung.
Keyboard partita in E minor, BWV 830. This is the sixth partita from Bach's set of Partitas for keyboard BWV 825­830.
Minuet in F major, BWV Anh. 113.
Minuet in G major, BWV Anh. 114 Usually attributed to Christian Petzold
Minuet in G minor, BWV Anh. 115. Usually attributed to Christian Petzold.
Rondeau in B-flat major, BWV Anh. 183. This piece is by François Couperin and is best known under the original title: Les Bergeries.
Minuet in G major, BWV Anh. 116.
Polonaise in F major, BWV Anh. 117a.
Polonaise in F major, BWV Anh. 117b.
Minuet in B-flat major, BWV Anh. 118.
Polonaise in G minor, BWV Anh. 119.
Chorale prelude ³Wer nur den lieben Gott läßt walten², BWV 691.
Chorale setting ³Gib dich zufrieden und sei stille² in F major, BWV 510.
Chorale setting ³Gib dich zufrieden und sei stille² in E minor, BWV 511.
Chorale setting ³Gib dich zufrieden und sei stille² in G minor, BWV 512.
Minuet in A minor, BWV Anh. 120.
Minuet in C minor, BWV Anh. 121.
March in D major, BWV Anh. 122. Usually attributed to Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach.
Polonaise in G minor, BWV Anh. 123. Usually attributed to Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach.
March in G major, BWV Anh. 124. Usually attributed to Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach.
Polonaise in G minor, BWV Anh. 125. Usually attributed to Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach.
Aria ³So oft ich meine Tobackspfeife² in D minor, BWV 515.
Aria ³So oft ich meine Tobackspfeife² in G minor, BWV 515a.
Menuet fait par Mons. Böhm, by Georg Böhm Not included in the BWV catalogue.
Musette in D major, BWV Anh. 126.
March in E-flat major, BWV Anh. 127.
(Polonaise) in D minor, BWV Anh. 128.
Aria ³Bist du bei mir², BWV 508. This composition is probably the most well-known of the arias of the 1725 notebook. Its melody is by Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel
Keyboard aria in G major, BWV 988/1. Another well-known piece, this is the aria of the Goldberg Variations BWV 988. Christoph Wolff has suggested that this Aria was entered into the two blank pages of this book by Anna Magdalena later, in 1740.
Opening bars of Solo per il cembalo by C.P.E. Bach, piece number 27 from the 1725 Notebook for Anna Magdalena.
Solo per il cembalo in E-flat major, BWV Anh. 129. A harpsichord piece by Carl Phillip Emanuel Bach.
Polonaise in G major, BWV Anh. 130. Possibly composed by Johann Adolph Hasse
Prelude in C major, BWV 846/1. This is the first prelude from the Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1, with bars 16­20 omitted, most likely in order to make the piece fit in two pages.
Keyboard suite in D minor, BWV 812. This is the first French Suite
Keyboard suite in C minor, BWV 813. This is an incomplete version of the second French Suite.
Untitled movement in F major, piece number 32 from the 1725 Notebook for Anna Magdalena.
Movement in F major, BWV Anh. 131. The handwriting looks like that of a child, and apparently the piece is an attempt to create a bass line for a given melody.
Aria ³Warum betrübst du dich², BWV 516.
Recitative ³Ich habe genug² and aria ³Schlummert ein, ihr matten Augen² (solo), BWV 82/2,3.
Chorale setting ³Schaff's mit mir, Gott², BWV 514.
Minuet in D minor, BWV Anh. 132.
Aria ³Wilst du dein Herz mir schenken² (subtitled Aria di Giovannini), BWV 518.
Aria ³Schlummert ein, ihr matten Augen², unfinished, BWV 82/3.
Chorale setting ³Dir, dir Jehova, will ich singen² (version for choir), BWV 299.
Chorale setting ³Dir, dir Jehova, will ich singen² (solo), BWV 299.
Song ³Wie wohl ist mir, o Freund der Seelen², BWV 517.
Aria ³Gedenke doch, mein Geist, zurücke², BWV 509.
Chorale ³O Ewigkeit, du Donnerwort², BWV 513.

Ed Myskowski wrote (July 3, 2010):
I have taken the liberty (not to say Independence) to reproducd Dougs entire post to both lists, for those BRML correspondents who may have missed it. A few comments interspersed.

Douglas Cowling wrote:
< "Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena Bach" BWV 508 – 523
BCML page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/BWV508-523.htm
Score: http://imslp.org/wiki/Notebook_for_Anna_Magdalena_Bach_%28Bach,_Johann_Sebas>tian%29
http://www.4shared.com/account/document/yuoaw3x1/Bach_-_Notebook_For_Anna_Magda.html
Commentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_for_Anna_Magdalena_Bach
Bach compiled two musical notebooks for his second wife Anna Magdalena Bach.
The 1722 Notebook contains keyboard music by Bach mostly written in his own hand. The manuscript is an important source for the French Suites. The difficulty of the collection varies from the simple Minuet in G to the mature demands of the suites. If Anna Magdalena played this repertoire, she was an accomplished keyboard player. >
EM:
Any reason to think otherwise?

< The 1725 Notebook is a wide-ranging compendium of vocal and keyboard music and gives an invaluable glimpse into the tastes and teaching materials of the Bach family.
A few general categories:
1) Keyboard pieces by Bach, most notably the partitas included in the Clavier-Übung.
2) Dance movements by CPE Bach, Petzold, Couperin and Hasse. These may have been used as teaching pieces. Was Anna Magdalena the teacher of her younger children? The older sons were obviously encouraged to add their own compositions to the collection.
3) Chorales. Were these used as singing exercises? at family prayers?
4) Chorale-Preludes for keyboard (manual-only organ?) Were these keyboard exercises? Serious pieces to play on Sunday at home instead of dances?
5) Several arias, most notably movements from Cantata BWV 82, Ich Habe Genug. This would suggest that Anna Magdalena was an accomplished singer with whom Bach entrusted some of his greatest music. The diversity of vocal music suggests that she taught the younger children, almost certainly her daughters. >
EM:
Is it not well established that AM was indeed an accomplished singer. In fact, that is how Bach met her? Send those boys home, for real soprano singing.

< 6) A secular aria in the buffo tradition of the "Peasant" and "Coffee" cantatas.
The collection contains what may be the most frequently-performed music of J.S. Bach: the Minuet in G and the Aria, Bist Du Bei Mir. Alas, neither is by Bach. >
EM:
Better to be famous by mistake than undeservedly neglected? Lead me to something I can borrow. Soon.

Anna Magdalena Notenbüchlein BWV 508-523: Complete Recordings | Recordings of BWV 508 | General Discussions