Recordings of Bach Cantatas
General Discussions - Part 13: Year 2009

Continue from Part 12: Year 2008

Multiple approach to Bach

Terejia wrote (January 13, 2009):
In Japan, the author/researcher to whom many Bach fans refer themselves is Mr. Masashi Isoyama and Mr. Isoyama refers J.S.Bach to be "an Evangelist of the soul". Until I came to learn different approaches than this in this list, I had taken evangelical approach to be a standard. It is good that I learned different approach.

Last night, I was reading a short biography of major performers in Wiki, both in English and in Japanese. Some of them like Richter/ Rilling seem to have a solid evangelical background while other major HIP oriented performers seem to have more background in musical education itself. I have a personal fugitive impression that HIP performers might be paying more attention to scientific/mathematical approach in order to express objective beauty of the music itself.

I have yet to examine if Richter and/or Rilling consciously take evangelical approach in their Bach performance. It doesn't seem to be correct either if I say that those two maestro neglected scientific/mathematical approach. Indeed when it comes to Rilling I have personal impression that he takes much effort in objective expression of music itself.

When it comes to Richter, amateur listener's first impression tends to be inclined to believe that he has conscious approach to Bach as "an evangelist of soul" even though I fail to find any evidence so far. In a careful listening it sounds Richter does have objective approach with occasional exception. For me Richter still seems to have much mystery.

Mount Fuji has several routes for climbers to go up (if you pardon me using Japanese analogy here).

All cantatas at home!

Kristian J. (Szaginder) wrote (February 22, 2009):
Yes, to have the whole set and follow the year with the cantatas is nice idea, but aren't there to many?

Can I find, on this group, a list (or similar) of "all cantatas" recordings. Or a list of "who has made a long series of cantatas" recordings.

For some year ago the Swedish radio played all cantatas. With a cantata every Sunday, it lasted over a year. I tried to record as many as possibly, but it was impossibly get all of them.

John Pike wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Kristian J.] To see the complete recordings in the John Eliot Gardiner cantatas series, go here:
http://www.solideogloria.co.uk/recordings/index.cfm

and click on the link "Click here" in:
"Want to check which cantata is on which release?
Click here to download our index to the Bach Cantatas Series. (available as a pdf)".

Gardiner and Suzuki have not yet issued their complete series, but Koopman has. You could probably find a similar index on his website. The Bach Cantatas Website has a complete list of all Bach's music, including all the cantatas, and a wealth of information about them: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexBWV.htm

Kristian J. (Szaginder) wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To John Pike] Thanks, that was great!

Evan Cortens wrote (February 22, 2009):
Kristian J. wrote:
< Can I find, on this group, a list (or similar) of "all cantatas" recordings. Or a list of "who has made a long series of cantatas" recordings. >
You may also find the following page helpful: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Recordings-Table.htm

Though perhaps a little tricky to read at first glance, it provides a list of all "complete" cantata recordings. (Though, as John mentioned, some of these are not yet finished.)

If you're looking for something a little more affordable than Koopman, Gardiner or Suzuki (all of which have their own unique merits, and can be heartily recommended), may I suggest the Leusink/Brilliant Classics boxed set. It's available from amazon for about $140 USD: Amazon.com

Paul T. McCain wrote (February 22, 2009):
Brilliant Classics Bach Complete Works

Evan Cortens wrote:
< If you're looking for something a little more affordable than Koopman, Gardiner or Suzuki (all of which have their own unique merits, and can be heartily recommended), may I suggest the Leusink/Brilliant Classics boxed set. It's available from amazon for about $140 USD: Amazon.com >
To add to what Evan said, if you are going to buy this set, you might as well go ahead and buy the complete boxed set of all of Bach's works, and you can get the entire recording for less than buying just the Cantatas alone. Amazon.com

Kristian J. (Szaginder) wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Paul T. McCain, regarding Brilliant Classics] On the other hand, you put all eggs in one basket and it is scary. If you don't like the particular style of this conductor or orchestra.....well.

Paul T. McCain wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Kristian J.] Well worth the "risk" at only $130 though, as most would agree.

Glen Armstrong wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Paul T. McCain] Don't forget one (or two?) trebles who ruin many choral pieces for me. I hesitate to play any Leusink because of them.

Vivat205 wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Kristian J.] Well, I must say I am distressed by the subversive direction this thread is taking--analyzing the Bach cantatas in terms of cost-effectiveness and all. If you aren't willing to take out a second (or third) mortage on your house and put your spouse and kids to work, and steal from the Salvation Army kettle to fund acquisition of the Rilling, Gardiner, Suzuki, Koopman, Harnoncourt/Leonhardt, and (maybe, just for the sake of completeness) the Leusink, and as many Herreweghes and Jacobs as you can find, you have NO BUSINESS making an appearance on these pages!!!

Kristian J. (Szaginder) wrote (February 23, 2009):
vivat205 said:
"..steal from the Salvation Army kettle.." That was an idea!
But on the other hand if I talk about money, I
"have NO BUSINESS making an appearance on these pages"
Oh dear!

Anyway I have 4 Leusink CD and I have mixed feelings about them. A matter of taste i suppose. Sometimes I also hear some pequliar things.

What do you (Glen Armstrong) mean with: ...one (or two?) trebles who ruin…

Glen Armstrong wrote (February 23, 2009):
[To Kristian J.] Dear Kristian, You ask about my dislike of certain Leusink cantatas because of one or two trebles. Some on this site have written about their yodelling, screeching, etc. Please understand, I have no "expertise" whatsoever. Generally speaking, I enjoy the Leusink orchestra, the choir -- apart from a section of trebles, and the soloists - even Buwalda. In looking through my amateurish notes, I keep coming across reactions to the trebles. According to liner notes, Leusink has eleven trebles, including one female (with 'Leusink' as last name). No other cantata choir has me wincing. A more grounded listener could find strengths or weaknesses in other choirs. I am unable to do that. I skip certain choruses and chorales when listening to Leusink.

A few purely subjective observations:
BWV 46, BWV 48, BWV 72. Not good
BWV 75, BWV 79, BWV 108 Worse
BWV 38, BWV 44, BWV 70, BWV 100, BWV 107 Controlled

Unless you're very old, as I am, why rush into a complete set? Picking and choosing is much more fun. Some "availables" not mentioned, I believe: American Bach Society, Kuijken, Junghanel, Coin, Montreal Baroque. As I have no access to stores, and dislike the wait and extra charges for the physical product, most of mine come as downloads, and then to my iPod, via iTunes. More info than wanted? Think youself lucky I'm not getting into my favourire soloists...

Kristian J. (Szaginder) wrote (February 23, 2009):
[To Glen Armstrong] I am very old :-)

I am going to check if I have these recordings you did mentioned and listen.

Particularly cheap Bach SMP LPs in Copenhagen

Silvio Battaglia wrote (May 19, 2009):
Just some lines to inform you about a strange discovery I made in Copenhagen.

I was there for two days for a quick week-end holyday and I realized that right in the heart of the town, just a few meters from the central square and the famous Stroget streat, they have a big record shop. I took the trouble to skip straigt to the upper floor, in search of vinyls, and I was shocked to discover what incredible offers they had! In a few words, a lot of Bach SMP (BWV 244) and b minor Mass (BWV 232) recordings were available in LP, lots of them seem to have desappeared from stores for a long time! The most incredible was the price, ranging from 75 croonas to a hundred (which means from aproximately ten euros up to 13). They were all beautiful box-sets, with wonderful pictures and never before touched: the first Harnoncourt was there, the Gardiner, the Scherchen (also Mass), the Richter, Jochum (Mass also), and the famous Weissbach (with Pataky as tenor and evangelist). I was stunned and bought a lot of them, also a lot of cantatas were there, amongst wich the Rilling, the Harnoncourt, the Gardiner and the Richter. In general, a very good stop if you plan to visit Copenhagen. Best wishes to you all

P.S.
I also found a lot of non-bachian interesting recordings, from Bruno Walter, Erich Kleiber, Artur Schnabel, the famous Furtwangler Fidelio,

OT: Records versus CDs

Kim Patrick Clow wrote (August 30, 2009):
The classical music blog "An Overgrown Path" has a fascinating entry about the revival of VINYL albums. This leads into the topic of why do older recordings sound better from 40 and 50 years ago, considering "advances" in technology. It's a fascinating read for any audiophiles on the list. I created a "Tiny URL" for this: http://tinyurl.com/l5ramm

Bach's Music in Today's World...

Jenn Jadec wrote (September 22, 2009):
Does anyone know what are the most popular compositions from Bach in todays world?? It was a question a have on a term paper, and i found it odd because i have no idea, i only know what my favs are!

Julian Mincham wrote (September 22, 2009):
[To Jenn Jadec] No idea but i'd hazard a guess with Air (on the G string---3^rd orchestral suite)--and Jesus joy of man's desiring'. When I was a boy it might have been 'Sheep may safely graze'.?

Seems an odd question for an exam. Perhaps they were just testing to see if you could name ANY of Bach's compositions.

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 22, 2009):
Julian Mincham wrote:
< Seems an odd question for an exam. Perhaps they were just testing to see if you could name ANY of Bach's compositions. >
Presuming that logic applies in academia? Supporting evidence requested.

Evan Cortens wrote (September 22, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] For estimating the popularity of any given piece at any given time, a nice easy test is the number of in-print recordings of that piece. http://www.arkivmusic.com can be very helpful with this, as they have an interface that makes it easy to drill down by composer and composition.

Evan Cortens wrote (September 22, 2009):
Here's the most relevant link: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Johann-Sebastian-Bach/Composer/527-1

OR: http://tinyurl.com/n8m2au

We quickly see that "Air on a G String" and "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" are in first and second place respectively, dramatically higher than third place (BWV 565) and fourth place (the first cello suite).

Ezra Yoanes Setisabda wrote (September 22, 2009):
[To Julian Mincham] There are some famous well-heard bach's composition in the world

Air on G is commonly used on Weddings...
Jesu, the Joy of man's desiring is very common as well
toccata in D minor is also known by people
including little fugue in C minor
other than that, WTC no. 1 c major is also well known rite?
then, invention 1, 8 and 4 are realy well known :D

Julian Mincham wrote (September 22, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] Depends whether it was an American exam or European--the expectations might have been quite different----supporting evidence requested,

Anne (Nessie) Russell wrote (September 22, 2009):
Jenn Jadec wrote:
>Does anyone know what are the most popular compositions from Bach in todays world?? It was a question a have on a term paper, and i found it odd because i have no idea, i only know what my favs are!<
I would say the Brandenburg Concertos and the Goldberg Variations (BWV 988). They certainly have been recorded a lot.

Aryeh Oron wrote (September 22, 2009):
[To Anne (Nessie Russell] In terms of number of different recordings:
Most recorded solo keyboard work: Goldberg Variations BWV 988: 417 recordings
Most recorded vocal work: Mass in B minor BWV 232: 176 recordings (Matthäus-Passion BWV 244 close 2^nd with 171)
Most recorded cantata: BWV 82: 75 recordings (BWV 511 close 2^nd with 70)

Please don't ask me about individual movements.
However, I believe that the Chaccone from the Partita for solo violin No. 2 BWV 1004 is amongst the most recorded pieces by Bach (together with several others already mentioned).

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 23, 2009):
Julian Mincham wrote (in response to the following):
< depends whether it was an American exam or European--the expectations might have been quite different----supporting evidence requested, >
_______________

JM:
< Seems an odd question for an exam. Perhaps they were just testing to see if you could name ANY of Bach's compositions. >
EM:
< Presuming that logic applies in academia? Supporting evidence requested. >
________________

I hope the thread is reasonably clear. In any case, I will be mercifully brief. I think Evan did a fine job of providing evidence of logic, from the perspective of an American Graduate Student (I believe). However, I was not questioning the lack of logic of the students, so much as the faculty. No secret: I am a founding member of the Grad Students Guild!

By my tally:
USA (including Canada): One
Rest of the world (including Europe): Not yet heard from (nil?).

Mad4asics wrote (September 23, 2009):
[To Jenn Jadec] Hi! I'd go with the Toccata and Fugue in d, Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring and the Brandenburg Concerti as the top three "popular" Bach picks. I am thinking memorable tunes/melodies as priority regarding your question.

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 24, 2009):
Aryeh Oron wrote:
< In terms of number of different recordings:
Most recorded solo keyboard work: Goldberg Variations BWV 988: 417 recordings >
Evan Cortens wrote:
< We quickly see that "Air on a G String" and "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" are in first and second place respectively, dramatically higher than third place (BWV 565) and fourth place (the first cello suite). >
Thanks for applying some logic to the question, even though both work and popular remain a bit ill-defined. I would have pointed that out in my response to the term paper question, thereby scoring my customary zero points, and impudent student appraisal.

It is ironic that the most pop complete work, Tocatta and Fugue, d minor (BWV 565, vampire music, etc.) is now considered questionable (at best, I believe) as authentic Bach.

From Evan's method of accessing the count of in-print recordings via arkivmusic, considering only complete works, the Goldberg Variations (BWV 988), along with Brandenburg Concertos, and a couple of Cello Suites, are all approximately equal with well over a hundred recordings each, but all significantly less than BWV 565, with over 250 recordings available. I am citing those counts from memory from arkivmusic, close enough I trust.

For the competitive crowd (or just JM), note one logical response from the New World (USA) and one from the Old World (notably not Europe, however). Draw your own conclusions. I consider this addendum from me to be the tie-breaker, in overtime.

Bach's music in todays world - late addition

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 3, 2009):
Jenn Jadec asked:
"Does anyone know what are the most popular compositions from Bach in today's world?? It was a question a have on a term paper, and I found it odd because I have no idea, I only know what my favs are!"
I have found the website "The Kickass Classical", which presents a comprehensive Top 100 list of the Most Popular Classical Music made famous in movies, commercials, cartoons, songs, video games and ringtones.
See: http://www.kickassclassical.com/classical-music-popular-famous-best-top-100-list.html

Bach has 7 items in the Top 100 list:
4. Toccata And Fugue
34. Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring
50. Air On A G String
52. Cello Suite No. 1
57. Minuet In G
67. Brandenburg Concerto No. 3
71. Bourrée In E Minor

Additional details at: http://www.kickassclassical.com/classical-music-popular-famous-best-composers-a-z.html#Bach

Douglas Cowling wrote (October 3, 2009):
[To Aryeh Oron] Actually, the whole Baroque did rather poorly:

6 Pachelbel
46 Vivaldi Spring
55 Mouret Rondeau
65 Handel Arrival
90 Handel Water Music Hornpipe

I would have expected Vivaldi to do better (how can you sell bathroom tissue without Antonio?)

And where's the Hallelujah Chorus?

Continue on Part 14: Year 2010

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