Bach’s Librettists
Discussions - Part 1

Erdmann Neumeister

Jack Botelho wrote (April 12, 2004):
Bach's Cantatas

"Erdmann Neumeister (1671-1756), whose devotional poetry established a new trend in sacred music, described a cantata as resembling 'a portion of an opera, made up of recitative style and arias.' He called 'oratorio' a composition that mixed excerpts from the Bible and occasional chorales with madrigal-like poetic texts for arias and duets. Neumeister's earliest texts for the Sunday service were of the oratorio type, but the first published annual cycle of 1700 consisted of what he called cantatas. Later cycles compromised between the two types, and these suited composers better, for they were more in line with the Lutheran musical tradition of chorale concerto and concerted motet. It is this combination of biblical texts, chorales, recitatives, and arias that constitutes the cantata as practiced by Bach from his Weimar period on and by many of his contemporaries. Only five cantatas by Bach on Neumeister's texts have been authenticated (BWV 18, BWV 24, BWV 28, BWV 59, and BWV 61), but a large number were on texts inspired by Neumeister's models. The term 'cantata' was applied by the editors of the collected works of Bach to all the composite works of concerted music intended for the principal service, whether they were of the kind Neumeister designated 'oratorio' or 'cantata' or were closer to the older chorale concerto and motet. This loose employment of the term 'cantata' tends to obscure the fact that the Italian chamber cantata, which was written for one or two solo voices, usually as a succession of recitatives, arias, and duets, without chorus, was only one of the models for the Bach cantatas. The Bach works were not, however, modeled on the Italian sacred cantata, such as Rossi's 'Giuseppe', for this was a continuous narrative-dramatic work, although its components were also recitatives, arias, and choruses or ensembles."

Palisca, Claude V: Baroque Music, third edition
Prentice-Hall Publishing, 1991.
p.321

Erdmann Neumeister's designation of his first published cycle of church music in the year 1700 as 'cantatas' for the Lutheran service must have marked an important step in establishing a structure of sacred music for German worshipers in Bach's time. It is interesting to note that he used the Italian designation of 'cantata', which had been used exclusively to define a work of secular chamber music, and turned this label on its head, so to speak, to define a work of sacred music for the church.

Perhaps Neumeister used the word 'cantata' in part to signify the small musical forces expected to be employed for performances of such works as opposed to the larger forces of the oratorio?

It has been commented generally that church and even organ music in the German-speaking lands at the turn of the eighteenth century was in a dangerous decline, and perhaps raiding Italian musical designations and even the Catholic Church's enthusiasm for musical forms was a way to enrich the waning Lutheran tradition and also to more clearly define and strengthen the Lutheran Church's resolve to embrace music in church worship and differentiate themselves from their Calvinist opponents.

Luther in Bach

John Luther wrote (November 6, 2004):
Does anyone know where I can get a list of:

!) Martin Luther Hymns in Bach's Cantatas

2) Martin Luther Hymns in Other of Bach's works?

It seems like it would be readily available but I sure can't find it.

Aryeh Oron wrote (November 6, 2004):
[To John Luther] Please take a look at the page dedicated to Martin Luther at the BCW: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Luther.htm

At the bottom of the page you will find a list of Bach's works in which Luther's hymns have been used.

Bradley Lehman wrote (November 6, 2004):
[To John Luther] See pp471-481 of the 1998 edition of the BWV: a list of all the chorales used in all the Bach works, cross-referenced over to Zahn's collection (and catalogue numbers).

I've used the Zahn set in some hymnological research projects: it's 100 years old, but it's thorough. That's why it's still the STANDARD reference set about the Lutheran (i.e. German evangelical) tunes.

John Luther wrote (November 8, 2004):
Luther Unlock's Bach

[To Aryeh Oron] Thx for the help. What a great cross-reference tool to see how Luther significantly and specifically influenced Bach. The following 4 cd set of all of Luther's works is a very important step for me in understanding Bach (and Mendelssohn). I just spent the day building playlists on windows media by first copying and pasting Luther's original hymn (in English) and then copying and pasting Bach's applicable Organ Prelude's and Cantatas that Bach composed using Luther's hymns. What great CD's these make.

Bach really comes alive when you can see, hear and understand what he was composing from and what inspired him. I then added some Buxtehude organ works that Bux composed using the same hymns by Luther and it just made the CD's all the better.

In addition, I just got Mendelssohn's 10 CD Complete Choral Works and I can see Luther's Hymns throught his works as well. I can't wait to see how Luther helps me "unlock" Mendelssohn next! (You don't know where I can get an English translation of Mendelssohn's Complete Choral Work's do you?)

I recommend these Martin Luther CD's for anyone who loves Bach and doesn't have all of Luther's works!
http://www.cph.org/cphstore/product.asp?part%5Fno=991726

Paul Farseth wrote (November 8, 2004):
[To John Luther] When looking for clues to Bach's music in the texts of the chorales Bach quotes or sets, it's a good idea to look for a literal translation of the German texts, as the common English translations in hymn books are sometimes not entirely faithful to the original text, often not faithful to the order of images and words, sometimes not faithful to the images and ideas, and sometimes not faithful to the tone or feeling of the original. (On the other hand, the hymn translations intended to be sung may sometimes give a better approximation to the feeling of the original than an unidiomatic literal translation.)

Christiane Mariane von Ziegler Expanded Biography

Thomas Braatz wrote (May 4, 2007):
There is now an expanded biography (with Aryeh Oron's kind assistance) of Christiane Mariane von Ziegler available at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Ziegler.htm

Jean Laaninen wrote (May 4, 2007):
[To Thomas Braatz] Thanks Thomas, for bringing this article to our attention. I did not know of her work, though I recognized many other names in the article from the early hymnals of my childhood, and other musical scores we had at home. I wish I had known this woman. She seems to have been raised in some ways similar to some later pastor's daughters musically. I was encouraged to learn to play numerous instruments and grew up in a household with a father who freely quoted long epic poems at a moment's notice. Dad is now 98 and his mind is as clear as a bell and can still recite these ancient wonders. Mother was an English major who favored poetry, and along with many of my c's I learned to write verse at a young age (not for publication, however--other than creating verses for special occasions using known hymn tunes.) So this delightful article brings me closer to the Bach circle from a woman's outlook and I am so pleased that I've had a chance to read about her life and achievements.

Thanks to Aryeh and all who contributed to its availability.

Paul Gerhardt's Testament

Paul T. McCain wrote (May 4, 2007):
Paul Gerhardt, the 17^th century Lutheran pastor, described as the poet-laureate of Lutheranism, write a number of the chorales used by Bach in his cantatas. I received from a colleague today this translation of his "testament" which he prepared on his 70^th birthday for his son. It offers insight into this important Lutheran writer of many great chorales. Perhaps this could be incorporated into the Gerhardt information on the Bach Cantata web site.

Now that I have reached the 70^th year of my life and also have the joyful hope that my dear, holy God will soon rescue me out of this world and lead me into a better life than I have had until now on earth, I thank Him especially for all His kindness and faithfulness which, from my mother’s womb until the present hour, He has shown me in body and soul and in all that He has given me. Besides this, I ask Him from the bottom of my heart that when my hour comes He would grant me a happy departure, take my soul into His fatherly hands, and give my body a peaceful rest in the ground until the dear Last Day, when I, with all of my [family] who have been before me and also may remain after me, will reawake and behold my dear Lord Jesus Christ face to face, in whom I have believed but have not yet seen. To my only son whom I am leaving behind I leave few earthly goods, but with them I leave him an honorable name of which he will not have to be ashamed.

My son knows that from his tender childhood I have given him to the Lord my God as His possession, that he is to become a servant and preacher of His holy Word. He is to remain now in this and not turn away from it, even if he has only few good days in it. For the good Lord knows how to handle it and how sufficiently to replace external troubles with internal happiness of the heart and joy of the spirit.

Study holy theologiam [“theology”] in pure schools and at unfalsified universities and beware of the syncretists [those who mix religions or confessions], for they seek what is temporal and are faithful to neither God nor men. In your common life do not follow evil company but rather the will and command of your God. Especially: (1) Do nothing evil in the hope that it will remain secret, for nothing is spun so small that it is not seen in the light of day. (2) Outside of your office and vocation do not become angry. If you notice that anger has heated you up, remain still and speak not so much as a word until you have first prayed the Ten Commandments and the Christian Creed silently. (3) Be ashamed of the lusts of the flesh, and when you one day come to the years in which you can marry, then marry with God and with the good advice of pious, faithful, and sensible people. (4) Do good to people even if they have nothing with which to repay you, for the Creator of heaven and earth has long since repaid what humans cannot repay: when He created you, when He gave you His beloved Son, and when He accepted you in Holy Baptism as His child and heir. (5) Flee from greed as from hell. Be satisfied with what you have earned with honor and a good conscience, even if it is not all too much. But if the good Lord gives you something more, ask Him to preserve you from the burdensome misuse of temporal goods.

In summary: Pray diligently, study something honorable, live peacefully, serve honestly, and remain unmoved in your faith and confessing. If you do this, you too will one day die and depart from this world willingly, joyfully, and blessedly. Amen.

[Translated by Benjamin T. G. Mayes, 5/4/2007]

Rick Canyon wrote (May 5, 2007):
Paul T. McCain wrote:
< Paul Gerhardt, the 17^th century Lutheran pastor, described as the poet-laureate of Lutheranism, write a number of the chorales used by Bach in his cantatas. I received from a colleague today this translation of his "testament" which he prepared on his 70^th birthday for his son. It offers insight into this important Lutheran writer of many great chorales. Perhaps this could be incorporated into the Gerhardt information on the Bach Cantata web site. >
There is a nice recording of Gerhardt chorales available here: http://www.rondeau.de/webbusiness/query.php?cp_sid=27237a63a03&cp_tpl=main
Performed by the Thomanerchor and Martin Petzold.

Marianne von Ziegler [was: Perhaps a Dumb question about BWV 176]

Continue of discussion from: Cantata BWV 176 - Discussions

Nessie Russell wrote (June 24, 2007):
The librettist was Marianne von Ziegler. In English speaking countries Marianne is a female name. Was this Marianne female? If so, is this not a strange thing for Bach's time?

Aryeh Oron wrote (June 24, 2007):
[To Nessie Russell] She was...
See her bio and pictures at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Ziegler.htm

Nessie Russell wrote (June 24, 2007):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thank you Aryeh. A most unusual woman!

Ed Myskowski wrote (June 25, 2007):
Nessie Russell wrote:
> The librettist was Marianne von Ziegler. In English speaking countries Marianne is a female name. Was this Marianne female? If so, is this not a strange thing for Bach's time? <
If you Google 'Ziegler', you will first be directed to BCW (that's us). The information there suggests that you are correct, a female writer (theologian?) was unusual. On the other hand, she was a member of a writers guild, but it is notable that she was the only female.

Which makes me wonder if Bach might have been specifically supporting female participation in the creative process.?

Or if if Marianne was especially well-connected, politically, and Bach was just going along?

Has anyone suggested that the poetry (as distinct from the theology) in any of the texts (Ziegler or others) inspired Bach's music? An interesting thought, perhaps I have overlooked some subtleties in the discussions? Are there any examples where the beauty of the phrase, not just the underlying theologic meaning, or a single word picture, may have inspired the music? Or even been specifically emphasized by the music.

Thomas Braatz wrote (June 25, 2007):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>Has anyone suggested that the poetry (as distinct from the theology) in any of the texts (Ziegler or others) inspired Bach's music? An interesting thought, perhaps I have overlooked some subtleties in the discussions?<<
All of the commentaries seem to agree that, based upon the more extensive corrections that Bach (or someone else) made to the text made to von Ziegler's texts (more than Bach ever made to any of his other libretti), Bach had greater difficulty setting her poetry to music than he had with any other librettist he used. In BWV 176 we find, for example:

Mvt. 3:

Ziegler: Die sein Allmacht-volles Wesen
Sich zu Zeugen auserlesen

Bach: Denn sein Allmacht und sein Wesen
scheint, ist göttlich auserlesen

Mvt. 4:

Ziegler: Jedoch du nimmt mein zages Hertz und Geist
Bach: Doch tröst ich mich, du nimst mein

The NBA KB I/15 p. 51 states:

"Wie bei den meisten Ziegler-Texte finden sich auch hier verschiedene Differenzen zwischen Textdruck und Bachs Kantate" ("As in the case of most texts by von Ziegler, there are here various differences between the printed text [Ziegler's text in her "Andächtige Gedichte"] and Bach's cantata [the wording used by Bach in the autograph score and in the vocal parts].")

Speculation abounds on what these differences signify:

1.) von Ziegler's poetry did not lend itself as easily to setting to music as that of other poets whose texts Bach used.

2.) von Ziegler revised her poetry subsequent to Bach's use of it and her later printing of these texts show these modifications and differences between Bach's texts and hers.

3.) Bach reluctantly (politically?, a situation forced upon him suddenly?) accepted the task of setting von Ziegler's texts to music only to discover that they did not serve his purpose as composer as well as that of other librettists' efforts did.

4.) Bach had no opportunity to work with her directly on the texts before coming up with a version that both could agree upon.

5.) etc., etc. [add your own speculations]

Richard Unkraut wrote (June 25, 2007):
[To Thomas Braatz] The June BBC Music Magazine has intriguing features about Edward Elgar and the collaborations/inspirations of his lady friends. Is there any chance Bach and this Ziegler had any, um, inspiring relationship outside the text and music? (#5 "add your own speculations!")

As I understand, Bach had to work inside a regimented bureaucracy at Leipzig. Wouldn't it be surprising if Bach as composer did not make any changes in texts assigned for cantata use, before or after he got them approved by his superiors? Perhaps somebody else on staff didn't like Ziegler's wording or theology, and compelled Bach to make changes.

Continue of this discussion, see: Cantata BWV 176 - Discussions

German TV Report on Paul Gerhardt

Paul T. McCain wrote (October 5, 2007):
Folks on this list might be interested in a German television short video essay on the life and work of Paul Gerhardt, poet/hymn writer. It is in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HrXxqoC0gI

Remembering Philipp Nicolai

Paul T. McCain wrote (January 6, 2009):
Today is Epiphany and the great Lutheran chorale "How Lovely Shines the Morning Star" has come to be associated with this festival day. I'm always very interested in the persons who wrote hymns, their life, their experiences. I find their stories helpful for a greater understanding of the meaning and intention of their hymns.

I posted an article today on my blog site that Bach Cantata list member might find of interest, along with a new literal/literalistic translation of How Lovely Shines, which illuminates the meaning of the original German.

Of course, this hymn is featured in BWV 1.

Here is the link to the post about Nicolai and the hymn: Pastor Philipp Nicolai: Hero of the Faith and Gift to the Church....The Story of the Queen of the Chorales: "How Lovely Shines the Morning Star"

OT: Who is Agricola

Continue of discussion from: Bach's Death and Funeral [General Topics]

Kim Patrick Clow wrote (January 10, 2009):
I'm entering into my database entitled "Music in the Home of Martin Luther" on the Cornetto label; and there are several pieces by a "Agricola." SOme of the pieces include "Jesus Christus unser Heiland," "Vater unser im Himmelreich," "Wir Glauben all an einen Gott."

I looked around on the Interwebs and I got the impression Agricola wrote LYRICs and not music. Can someone tell me the specific name of the Agricola to these pieces I've identified?

Thanks much!

Kim Patrick Clow wrote (January 10, 2009):
Ops...

I meant "I'm entering a CD entitled ..." Did a Agricola pen these hymn tunes or did he set existing texts in new musical settings? If so, what was his full legal name.

Thank you again

Evan Cortns wrote (January 10, 2009):
[To Kim Patrick Clow] Tough question! That's a pretty common surname it seems from the 15^th through the 18th centuries in Germany... My guess, if we're talking about someone who wrote hymn texts, and was connected to Martin Luther, would be Johannes Agricola (1494–1566). As he was a theologian closely involved with the Reformation, he seems to fit the bill.

If we're talking a sixteenth-century composer, there again are quite a number of them. However, off the top of my head, I don't know any who would have been involved with hymn composition...

Hope this helps!

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Kim Patrick Clow] Agricola wrote some music but if he wrote what you are asking I can not say since I can not see the music.

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Evan Cortens] Agricola was what we would call today a musicologist who wrote various treatises on music and the Organ. He was also a composer of sorts and wrote music also. If memory serves me correct there is some connection between him a Leonardo da Vinci's Masques.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 11, 2009):
>Agricola was what we would call today a musicologist who wrote various treatises on music and the Organ. He was also a composer of sorts and wrote music also.<
Today, if he was a composer, he would not be a musicologist, I do not believe. The two do not even have coffee at the same in 21st C. academia. But what do I know? Administrator, help us out here!

James Atkins Pritchard wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] Which Agricola is being discussed here? Martin? Johann Friedrich? They both composed and wrote theoretical treatises.

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] Agricola was both a musicologist and a composer. He wrote a very important treatise on Organology that included information about the PIpe Organ Musica instrumentalis deudsch . He wrote Motets and other Renaissance type of music. An is an very important Music theorist of the Renaisannce.

He has come up in your studies because he was the first one to hamornize Martin Luther's Ein 'feste ein Burg. If you are intrested in old notation and new (what we use today) notation--no work can be a finer reference than Agricola's.

David Glenn Lebiut Jr. wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Ludwig] Actually, that is incorrect. Luther himself did, then his friend and collaborator Johann Walt(h)er did, then others. All the tunes that Kim was mentioning were originally by Luther himself (with the exception of "Jesus Christus, unser Heiland" which was originally by Jan Hus ["Iesus Christus, nostra salis"] and adapted and translated from the Latin by Luther).

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 11, 2009):
>Agricola was both a musicologist and a composer. He wrote a very important treatise on Organology<
If an Organologist is to an organ as a musicologist is to music, I am now afraid to go to bed!

James Atkins Pritchard wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To David Glenn Lebut Jr.] According to the 1911 Britannica Martin Agricola was the first to harmonize Ein' feste Burg in four parts. Unfortunately no source is given (at least on-line--one might want to check out the article in a library).

What's your source for your claim that Luther harmonized it? And how many parts were there?
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Agricola,_Martin

Aryeh Oron wrote (January 11, 2009):
[To Kim Patrick Clow] Several Agricolas are presented on the BCW:

Georg Ludwig Agricola (1643-1676) - Composer
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Agricola-Georg-Ludwig.htm

Johann Agricola (1492-1566) - Hymn-writer
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Agricola.htm

Johann Friedrich Agricola (1720-1774) - Composer, a pupil of J.S. Bach
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Agricola-Johann-Friedrich.htm

Martin Agricola (c1500 - 1556), Composer & Theorist
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Agricola-Martin.htm

All these Agricolas are connected to J.S. Bach. directly or indirectly.
I believe there are several more, but the one you are looking for seems to be Johann Agricola, who had strong connections with Martin Luther.

James Atkins Pritchard wrote (January 11, 2009):
Presumably this is Martin you're speaking of...
www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Agricola-Martin.htm

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 12, 2009):
[To Aryeh Oron] Actually, Aryeh, Johann Agricola was not a musician or composer. Of the Agricolas active during Luther's lifetime and shortly thereafter (Johann, Stephan, and Martin) only Martin Agricola was the musician/composer/hymnist. The other two were theologians and ministers.

Also, Johann Agricola was never referred to as "Magister Islebius" by Luther or those of his immediate circle. That title was reserved for another Agricola, Stephan Agricola.

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 12, 2009):
[To James Atkins Pritchard] Actually, the 1911 Britannica is wrong. The first four-part setting was in the Hymnal shortly after its composition in 1529, and then by Johann Walt(h)er. Luther's setting and that in the hymnal were both monolineal, but Walt(h)er's was polyphonic (a Motet).

Aryeh Oron wrote (January 12, 2009):
David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote:
"Actually, Aryeh, Johann Agricola was not a musician or composer. Of the Agricolas active during Luther's lifetime and shortly thereafter (Johann, Stephan, and Martin) only Martin Agricola was the musician/composer/hymnist. The other two were theologians and ministers."
I do not understand your point.

Georg Ludwig Agricola was a composer, as you can read in his bio page.
Among other things, he comnposed "Meinen Jesum laß ich nicht" for 12-18 voices/parts baded on the Chorale Melody "Meinen Jesum laß ich nicht".

Johann Agricola was a hymn-writer. I have not said that he was a composer
He wrote "Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ", used by J.S. Bach in Cantatas BWV 177 (all 5 mvts.) and BWV 185 (Mvt. 5).
As Thomas Braatz informed me, according to recent hymnals Johann Agricola's authorship of this hymn is now questionable. However, all the sources I have checked (including the liner notes by C. Wolff to Koopman's Bach Cantatas Vol. 21) still list him as the writer of this hymn.

Johann Friedrich Agricola, a pupil of J.S. Bach, was also a composer as you can read in his bio page.

Martin Agricola was a theorist and composer. I an not aware of any hymn he had written as you suggested.

Stephan Agricola bio is not presented on the BCW, because I am not aware of any Bach connection (direct or inderct).

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 14, 2009):
Aryeh Oron wrote:
< Johann Agricola was a hymn-writer. I have not said that he was a composer
He wrote "Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ", used by J.S. Bach in Cantatas > BWV 177 (all 5 mvts.) and BWV 185 (Mvt. 5).
Thomas Braatz informed me, according to recent hymnals Johann Agricola's authorship of this hymn is now questionable. However, all the sources I have checked (including the liner notes by C. Wolff to Koopman's Bach
Cantatas Vol. 21) still list him as the writer of this hymn. >
I respond thusly:

Johann Agricola (also appearing as Johannes Agricola) was not a musician. He wrote the words only to the Choraele that have been assigned to him. He was a preacher and theologian. His was a similar case to that of Paul(us) Gerhardt. He also wrote the words to Choraele, but others wrote the tunes.

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (January 14, 2009):
[To David Glenn Lebut Jr.] When will you folks listen to me about who Agricola was. He was not a hymn writer per se. He is chiefly known these days for harmonizing Martin Luther's famous Reformation Hymn, which Bach also took up and did a fuge on. Agricola was a composer in his own write and what we would call today a musicologist. His musicology endeavors include an important text on Renaissance Instruments et al.

David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (January 14, 2009):
[To Ludwig] Because you have to specify which Agricola you refer to. The ones I mentioned (Johann and Stephan) were not musicians, whereas Martin was.

Also, as I stated earlier, the first one to set "Ein' feste Burg" in four parts was Johann Walt(h)er.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 14, 2009):
David wrote:
>He wrote the words only to the Choraele that have been assigned to him.<
I would find this sentence much more clear with the emphasis thusly:

He wrote the words only ...

Douglas Cowling wrote (January 14, 2009):
Ludwig wrote:
< When will you folks listen to me about who Agricola was. He was not a hymn writer per se. He is chiefly known these days for harmonizing Martin Luther's famous Reformation Hymn. >
I understand he played the blockflüte until he moved to England.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 14, 2009):
Doug wrote:
>I understand he played the blockflüte until he moved to England.<
Beating me to the punch by a demisemiquaver! If I were driving, I would have to pull over to prevent an accident from the laughter.

How much fun can one guy have in one lifetime? Trying to set the standard, I am, as ever

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (January 14, 2009):
[To David Glenn Lebut Jr.] Walther lived during Bach's Time. If I recall correctly---Bach (J.S) the greater and Walther knew each other. Agricola lived during the Renaissance and as far as I know when we are talking about music --it refers only to Martin.

Julian Mincham wrote (January 14, 2009):
<< He is chiefly known these days for harmonizing Martin Luther's famous Reformation Hymn. >>
< I understand he played the blockflüte until he moved to England. >
An event which I understand to be very well recorded!

OT: Picander- a hack or a gifted writer?

Mahiruha wrote (February 2, 2010):
I am writing a short article on Bach's longtime collaborator, Henrici (Picander), for another forum.

On the back cover of one of my St. Matthew Passion (BWV 244) LPs, the commentator describes Picander as "a facile literary hack of no unusual talent."

Is this fair? I mean, I think the lyrics of the St. Matthew Passion (BWV 244) are beautiful, evocative and quite moving.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize for interrupting the flow of discussion.

William Rowland (Ludwig) wrote (February 2, 2010):
[To Mahiruha] Picander was NO Shakespeare or great literary writer as Goethe and certainly not a great poet as the German equivalent of Keats---Picander's poetry is mediocre at best. He did have a gift for delivering what Bach needed for his cantatas and he was also a very convenient writer for Bach since he was the Pastor of the Church and Bach his Organist/Music director. While the musical setting IS great the literary is not and if it were not for Bach's settings---Picander would have long ago been forgotten and his efforts lost in the garbage dump of human history. Bach's music flatters Picander's efforts. It is like a great actor giving an illuminating performance to a play by a sub-mediocre playwright that barely gets off the ground but attracts a great audience because of the masterful performance of the actor.

Ed Myskowski wrote (February 2, 2010):
Mahiruha wrote:
"a facile literary hack of no unusual talent."
IMO, that is a quite nicely turned phrase, if a bit snide.

< Is this fair? I mean, I think the lyrics of the St. Matthew Passion (BWV 244) are beautiful, evocative and quite moving. >
Provide some examples?

Many folks have said it before me. I only echo the throng: Bach has immortalized some very mediocre (to put it kindly) poetry and prose. Especially the prosaic thoughts forced into rhyme.

A random snatch from last weeks canata, immediately at hand (BWV 72/2):

er fuhre mich nur immer hin
auf Dorn und Rosenstrassen

[Let Him lead me always on
down paths of thorns and roses]

In fact, there is something exotic about <auf Dorn und Rosenstrassen>. Now I will have to go back, find a score, and see if Bach actually stopped (musically) to smell the roses. To feel the thorns.

Julian Mincham wrote (February 2, 2010):
[To Ed Myskowski] Ed small correction, it is BWV 72/3 not 2.---and Dürr attributes this text to Salomo Franck

The aria is another of Bach’s original movement structures, loosely based upon the ritornello principle but combining it with a reiterated ‘motto’ theme for specific emphasis. A fine example of this approach is to be found in the soprano and bass duet from BWV 79 which begins with a four bar assertion----Ah God, do not forsake your children evermore. What follows is a textbook ritornello movement but the strong motto theme is repeated unaltered throughout.

In BWV 72 the principle is the same. The significant opening line states unequivocally---everything I am and have, I entrust to Jesus. The soprano sings this at the beginning of the movement, lightly accompanied by the continuo so as to obscure nothing of the message. This ‘motto’ phrase is heard four more times (beginning in bars 17, 27, 42 and 68). It is always sung at the same pitch and in the same key although not always to the same words. Nevertheless it conveys the fundamental notion underpinning not only the aria but, indeed, the entire cantata.

Ideas derived from the last lines of the stanza-----my mind and soul may not be capable of fathoming His purpose but He may yet lead me through the paths of roses and thorns are reflected in the instrumental motives which expresse the sense of personal inadequacy, yet stretching out to grasp that which is offered. The continuous string quavers suggest both the all-encompassing benefice we seek to receive from the Almighty and the complexities of the route we must follow in order to achieve it.

There is a moment of passing word painting with a briefly convoluted vocal line at the mention of the ‘thorns’ (bar 62).

Neil Halliday wrote (February 2, 2010):

Julian Mincham wrote:
>There is a moment of passing word painting with a briefly convoluted vocal line at the mention of the thorns (bar 62).<
Quite so, Julian; and also that entire section, based on the line "whether he leads me on streets of thorns or roses" (this is the meaning that Rilling's booklet suggests), is the only section in the entire aria that modulates markedly away from the home key (D minor); a harmonic structure based on a circle of fifths can be observed, beginning bar 53, namely, D dom7, G dom7, C dom7, F dom7 etc, so perhaps the shifting modality of this section may itself be considered as tone painting.

This contrasts strongly with the mostly straightforward D minor presentation associated with the other sentences: "With all that I have and am, I want to give myself to Jesus" and "If my weakness cannot grasp the Highest's counsel", always set to the same initial melodic motif (except for the last repetition of "Mit Allem...").

I love the varied, decorative, extended treatments given to "lassen" and "fassen"; sometimes the lower notes reached here by the alto voice seem to disappear behind the instruments in a manner which is quite charming.

Julian Mincham wrote (February 2, 2010):
[To Neil Halliday] Neil good point.

There is still quite a lot to be said and writeen about Bach's use of harmonic progressions (and choral textures too) in the portrayal of textual meaning.

Douglas Cowling wrote (February 2, 2010):
Bach & Picander

William L. Hoffman wrote:
< Please, let's stop the knee-jerk trashing of Picander. The 19^th century can be excused for its intellectual myopia. >
I've always used the title of this cantata as a joke when people ask how I am. I like "Mein Herze Schwimmt im Blut" (BWV 199) and "Die ganze Welt in nur ein Hospital" (BWV 25) as rejoinders as well.

On Sunday, I went to the Bach Vespers at the Church of the Redeemer in Toronto during which they performed the cantata (incredible young tenor from the university who will really go places)

Each Vespers has a short reflection/homily/sermon, and I was surprised that the preacher chose the opening of "Ich Steh mit einen Fuss" as her text. For her it provided a link to the tragedy of Haiti where people trapped in the rubble were literally standing with one foot in the grave. Quite eloquent.

It also served as a corrective that, although we laugh at Bach's librettos, his audiences may very well have been moved and inspired by both the text and music. Bach respected and worked with these poets as colleagues. He didn't see himself trapped in time and space with fools -- he may have even written some of the poetry himself. We injure Bach when we try to extract him from the historical world he lived in.

Douglas Cowling wrote (February 2, 2010):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< A random snatch from last weeks canata, immediately at hand (BWV 72/2):
er fuhre mich nur immer hin
auf Dorn und Rosenstrassen
[Let Him lead me always on
down paths of thorns and roses]
In fact, there is something exotic about <auf Dorn und Rosenstrassen>. Now I will have to go back, find a score, and see if Bach actually stopped (musically) to smell the roses. To feel the thorns. >
Mozart and Schikaneder liked the image as well in The Magic Flute:

Pamina:

Die Liebe leite mich!
Sie mag den Weg mit Rosen streu'n,
Weil Rosen stets bey Dornen seyn.
Spiel du die Zauberflöte an;

Kim Patrick Clow wrote (February 2, 2010):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
< It also served as a corrective that, although we laugh at Bach's librettos, his audiences may very well have been moved and inspired by both the text and music. >
Or maybe not.

Maybe instead the parishoners wished the 3 hour service would hurry up, so they could go home and have something to eat and warm up after having sat in a freezing cold church. As JEG has noted remorsefully in one of his documentaries, we do not have a single account from 25 years of any cantata services Bach conducted. Not one diary entry, absolutely nothing. That's remarkable considering how many parishoners, town council staff, school staff, teachers, musicians and choir boys passed through St. Thomas over 25 years. For a guy who demands any proof about anything Bach related, it's remarkable you jump to these sorts of "rose-colored" glasses conclusions about his texts and the possible impact they had. We simply do not have any evidence.

< Bach respected and worked with these poets as colleagues. He didn't see himself trapped in time and space with fools -- he may have even written some of the poetry himself. We injure Bach when we try to extract him from the historical world he lived in. >
And by the same token: hagiography for Bach's librettos doesn't do him justice, or the music any favors either I'm afraid. By any literary standard, most 18th century cantata texts are pretty bad, because most of them were written by amateur Lutherean pastors (please reread thisentence before anyone posts lists of the exceptions). Brockes and Klopstock (Der Messias") are notable exceptions I think. So what if Bach wrote poor cantata texts? Mozart wrote some of the most filthy songs and canons and his hack poetry doesn't affect his genius ONE bit.

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 2, 2010):
[To Mahiruha] Thomas Braatz suggested the detailed explanation of Picander given by Spitta in his Bach biography.
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/SpittaPicander.pdf
Since the original book is from 1873, the English translation is from 1889 and the Dover publication is OOP, I do not believe that there is a copyright issue with quoting a large segment from this book. However, if anyone is aware of such a problem, please inform me.

Douglas Cowling wrote (February 2, 2010):
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
< For a guy who demands any proof about anything Bach related, it's remarkable you jump to these sorts of "rose-colored" glasses conclusions about his texts and the possible impact they had. We simply do not have any evidence. >
LOL. You're absolutely right. But as a mediocre poet myself, I feel sorry for Picander.

Ed Myskowski wrote (February 2, 2010):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
< He didn't see himself trapped in time and space with fools -- he may have even written some of the poetry himself. >
For an alternative perspective, consider the sign-off used by TNT, quoting Bach:
<The authorities are odd, and little interested in music, so that I must live amid almost continual vexation, envy, and persecution; accordingly I shall be forced, with Gods help, to seek my fortune elsewhere.> (end quote)

The Bach Reader (1966 edition), p. 125. From the letter Bach Applies for Another Position. Leipzig, Oct. 28, 1730

Contrary evidence invited, especially re Wills hypothesis of Bach the contented composer. I remain open-minded, but unconvinced.

Julian Mincham wrote (February 2, 2010):
[To Ed Myskowski] What man (or woman) amongst us is truly contented?

Ed Myskowski wrote (February 4, 2010):
Aryeh Oron wrote:
< Thomas Braatz suggested the detailed explanation of Picander given by Spitta n his Bach biography.
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/SpittaPicander.pdf >
Much illuminating material here, which strikes me from a quick look as supportive of many of Dougs thoughts, especially:
(1) Bach was involved interactively in preparation of the texts .
(2) Whatever we might think a few centuries later, the texts were not unpopular with Bach's comtemporaries.
(3) The working professional (professional poet?!) accommodates to the job at hand.

Mahiruha wrote (February 6, 2010):
I just wanted to thank all of you for indulging my query, and for the generous response I have received. I know now to where I should turn for inspiration and instruction.

Many, many thanks to Thomas Braatz for supplying me with that fascinating entry on Picander by Spitta.

And Aryeh, I am and will always be in awe of your dedication and devotion to this great music. Thank you for moderating and maintaining this unique site. It is a treasure.

Continue on Part 2