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Riccardo Nughes wrote (February 7, 2002):
http://www.andante.com/magazine/article.cfm?id=15907

Warner Bros stops Koopman's Cantatas cycle.

Charles Francis wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Riccardo Nughes] Does this mean we can expect to see some 'cut-out' bargains at Berkshire in the near future?

Philip Peters wrote (February 7, 2002):
AAAAARGGG! There are only three complete recodings of the cantatas available and at Suzukui's pace one may well wonder if he will ever finish his. Whatever opinion one may have about the Koopman cycle I feel that discontinuing it is irresponsible. So what else is new?

Thomas Boyce wrote (February 7, 2002):
Good morning from New York. A nice and gloomy day, which can only mean one thing: time for Bach's music. And plenty of it, as all of the bosses are in Philadelphia for a meeting. :)

Anyway, I read an article at Andante dot com: "Classical CDs are Dead, Long Live Classical CDs."

Phooey.

Since the compact disc came on the market, or should I say 1990, when I bought my first CD player, my classical music-spending has increased three-fold.

And since I joined this list and the Cantatas list, that spending has doubled. Am I speaking for everyone here?

A few years after I read a bunch of doom-and-gloom articles about how no one reads anymore, two Barnes & Noble Superstores were put up in my neighborhood (East 86th Street, Manhattan). I guess they're still reading.

Put out a good product and people will buy it.

Thomas Braatz wrote (February 7, 2002):
The Koopman Bach cantata cycle --

It's somewhat like hearing about a relative, who died because nobody could afford to support him.

So Warner Classics 'indulged in a vanity project' which will now be replaced by more Harnoncourt recordings, among other things?!!

The prevailing attitude is: "We did that already. We're competing against ourselves by continuing with Koopman. Let's milk as much as we can from the already existing flagship Harnoncourt cantata series by increasing the advertising costs necessary to sell this project effectively so as to make more people believe that this is the only legitimate, authentic recording of the Bach cantatas on the market."

Riccardo Nughes wrote (February 7, 2002):
< Thomas Braatz wrote: So Warner Classics 'indulged in a vanity project' which will now be replaced by more Harnoncourt recordings, among other things?!! >
Just in november 2001 many new recordings from N.Harnoncourt were planned :
- Dvorak,Slavonic Dances;
- Bartok, Orchestral Works;
- Beethoven, 5 piano concertos (featuring P.L.Aimard);
- Berg, Violin Concerto (featuring G.Kremer);
- Smetana, Ma Vlast;
- Bruckner, Symphony n°9;
- Haydn, Orlando Paladino (featuring Cecilia Bartoli).

2 months after : "....Among upcoming projects are a planned Má vlast and a Bruckner Ninth Symphony, both with Harnoncourt and the Vienna Philharmonic, as well as other projects that Cosgrove plans to discuss with the Austrian maestro in March...." (where to discuss probably means to reduce, if not to cancel...).

So WB curtail seems to be damaging even Harnoncourt, for the happiness of someone.

< The prevailing attitude is: "We did that already. We're competing against ourselves by continuing with Koopman. Let's milk as much as we can from the already existing flagship Harnoncourt cantata series by increasing the advertising costs necessary to sell this project effectively so as to make more people believe that this is the only legitimate, authentic recording of the Bach cantatas on the market." >
This is paranoia. Actually in the WB catalogue there are Bach Cantatas from F.Werner, J.E.Gardiner and K.Richter. Using this kind of news for drab polemics is infamous. I know people fired from European WB, they don't blame for that Harnoncourt.Are they fools?

Johan van Veen wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Riccardo Nughes] Some people use everything to support their distaste for artists they don't like. The decision taken by Warner Classics has nothing to do with protecting Harnoncourt. As you rightly pointed out, even his position isn't quite safe. I think the latest issue of The Gramophone wrote the same. The article on andante shows that other artists are in danger as well. Some already got the sack. It's just shortsighted stupidity of Warner Classics - and other companies which have done or are doing comparable things. They show their true faces and reveal what many people already knew: they don't care about music, only about money. If they don't earn it with classical music, then they turn to garbage like cross-over.

Charles Francis wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Riccardo Nughes] One can only hope that the termination of the Gardiner/Koopman cycles will create an opportunity for a Rifkin/OVPP complete edition.

Richard Grant wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Thomas Braatz] More Harnoncourt, Yummy!!! Now, Tom are you really competent to state as fact the reasons and marketing strategy of Warner Bros. in this? Or is it like my belief about your reasons for disliking Harnoncourt so: more a reflection of my reaction to your position than an honest fair-minded assessment of it? Warners is after all - or should I say before all - a business and not a conservatory library or museum. I think we should be grateful to them for a very very high quality series, superbly produced and well marketed. And it did so when other producers with longer standing traditions in the field of classical music didn't dare toi take the chance.

Richard Grant wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Johan van Veen] Is crossover"garbage" by nature or just because you, like me, don't like it?

Donald Satz wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Charles Francis] What bothers me about the termination of Koopman's cycle, and it applies to most other areas of commerce as well, is the lack of loyalty and goodwill these corporations display. It may well be financially advantageous to junk the cycle, but Warner has had many customers who acquired each volume to date. We are essentially being told - "Too bad for you, move on to something else".

Goodwill sometimes involves taking a short-run loss in order to have further gains in the long-run. Our corporations don't give much thought these days to the horizon.

Richard Grant wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Donald Satz] Goodwill might involve taking a loss but I'm afraid business doesn't. I feel awful at the loss of this series which I was just beginning to collect. But lets place the blame in this case where it belongs, on good old capitalism, if indeed "blame" is to be placed anywhere in matters like this.

Donald Satz wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Richard Grant] I don't see any point in attaching blame; it would be a waste of energy and time. The way I look at it is that although capitalism junks the project, it was capitalism that created it in the first place.

Richard Grant wrote (February 7, 2002):
[To Donald Satz] Amen

Rev. Robert A. Lawson wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Donald Satz] I agree. This is very disappointing!

Rev. Robert A. Lawson wrote (February 8, 2002):
Do any of you think there is any chance that Koopman will be able to finish
his project through another, perhaps smaller, label?

Johan van Veen wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Rev. Robert A. Lawson] Considering all thge musicological research which has taken place for this cycle I can't believe that he will just accept this decision and go on with things. And if a company has cancelled an important project is it possible to go on with other recordings as if nothing has happened? So I could well imagine Koopman going to another label altogether. But how much choice is there?

Kirk McElhearn wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Rev. Robert A. Lawson] This is always possible. Koopman had an exclusive contract with Warner, which probably ended when they decided not to finish the cantatas. Perhaps he will take his worelsewhere; perhaps he will stay with them to record other things.

Ludwig wrote (February 8, 2002):
I seems to be that Warner has an anti-Bach attitude based on behavior of the past 30 years. They did not let the complete Harnoncourt Das Katatenwerke sell out and instead took it off the shelves in the United State and threw what had not sold into the public trash heap. That left collectors as myself with incomplete sets. They then compounded the problem by re-issuing the set in parts so expensive that the average collector had to decide either to buy, go into debt or eat that week.

I am not surprized that they have cancelled but feel they need to realize that profits from large sets do come but are slow in doing so when they price things so expensively that one must purchase one item at a time if one does not not wish to go into debt. Putting together large sets of complete works is like planting a fine vineyard that will produce very fine wine. One must wait along time to see the results and Warner does not seem to have the patience to do this.

Peter Bright wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Ludwig] I cannot agree more with Ludwig's post. Unfortunately, the short-termism is bound to continue, and perhaps get worse. One only has to look at the way pop and rock music is marketed - except for very few artists, there is an early push, a few songs storm up the charts and the band then disappears. For some reason I am reminded of a case in the early 1980s when Neil Young was sued by his own record company for not sounding like Neil Young! (I forget whether it was Warner or Geffen that was responsible). These attitudes do not sit comfortably with the marketing of great works of art (whether in classical or popular art, they can take a very long time before they are recognised as such). As far as rock music goes, it seems that an increasing number of serious artists are fighting against the control freakery of their labels - some, such as Bob Dylan seem to have full control again over their output. Once labels show flexibility and pass some of the responsibility on to the artists, the results are usually positive. When we look at classical players and conductors of the stature of Koopman, Harnoncourt or Gardiner, all of whom have proved there worth but are still affected by stupid, short-term driven decisions, it makes one despair about the future. I'm afraid that we can look forward to an increasing pasteurisation and funnelling of classical musical taste.

Dick Wursten wrote (February 8, 2002):
Just a silly question:

Did Koopman reach the high level (set the standard for the next century), which he was expected (and trumpetted, merchandized) to reach when the series were started?

Quality always being the decisive factor whether a recording will last longer than - say - 10 years. I can't really judge. I only heard a few and only once I was touched by the beautiful sound he created. All the other times (and on other levels) I was disappointed... as I was about the accompaning three books, the world of the bach-cantatas.

Johan van Veen wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Dick Wursten] Basically I agree as far as the quality of Koopman's interpretation is concerned. No, I don't think his project is really good. But I didn't expect that much from him, because I think in many ways he is not the most profound interpreter anyway.

I would be able to understand that his project was cancelled with the argument of a lack of quality, but then it should have happened long before. The simple fact that a project like this is cancelled because it isn't giving the company enough profit on the short term is very worrying and also revealing as far as the real motives of the company - this and others as well - are concerned. And it is also worrying regarding other - present and future - long-term projects.

Remember that DG cancelled the plans to record the Bach-tour of Gardiner. And two attempts to record all Haydn's symphonies have been cancelled before they were finished. It doesn't look good at all.

Piotr Jaworski wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Peter Bright] One thing comes to my mind, however not 100% relevant... During the so-called "martial law" in Poland in 1982-1983 many Poles instead of watching evening news in the 'regime TV' (heavily censored, full of lies and misinformation) were putting their TV-sets in the ... windows! The same happened to the regime-owned newspapers and magazines etc., etc. We were able to create quite unique "alternative society".

I was not a big fan of the Koopman cycle (decided to spend my money on Suzuki's), but am equally horrified by the developments in the Warner as most of us ... and I'm horrified by the possible disappearance of Opus 111 due to the idiotic policy of NAIVE...., I can only imagine the "new attitude" to the Early Music of Sony Classical, Deutsche Grammophon etc., etc.

So, maybe we should not support those companies with our money any more?

If they care about us that much, why not to respond with a really "decent payback"? Let them make those never-ending cross-overs, McCartney oratorios, Billy Joel passions or even Britney Spears cantatas series. OK, but to finance that? No, thanks. I'll stay with Hyperion, BIS, Chandos, Metronome, Signum, Glossa, Symphonia ..... the list is still long enough. And I'm quite sure that one of them will definitely take care about all "Koopmans".

Charles Francis wrote (Bebruary 8, 2002):
[To Piotr Jaworski] Often my CD acquisitions are from little-known regional labels. Typically, the performances are more innovative than those of the major labels which seem to promote a few 'stars' and a safe product. A problem is that the successful 'independents' are acquired by the few big fish and diversity is lost. But, hopefully this creates a niche for a new pioneer.

Michael Grover wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Piotr Jaworski] For the record, I really like Paul McCartney's Liverpool Oratorio. Especially his little Spanish ditty, "Tres Conejos". (Not sure I spelled that right.) (And NO, I am not kidding - I really do like it.)

Here is a very interesting article from andante.com, a follow up to Norman Lebrecht's rants about the state of the classical music recording industry:
http://www.andante.com/magazine/article.cfm?id=13701

I especially like the concluding paragraph:

"Maybe classical music will turn out to be a 21st-century version of the Grateful Dead, that durable counterculture rock group that was one of the world's largest concert draws for years, even decades, but couldn't sell any records - and so, for years at a time, didn't make them. In an interview a few years ago, Los Angeles Philharmonic music director Esa-Pekka Salonen talked about how, in Southern California, classical music is the counterculture. He rather likes that idea. Perhaps that's how we'll be – and listening all the more intently at concerts because we know there'll be no instant replay."

I'm really not sure how it will all end, and the recent fate of Koopman's and Gardiner's cantata cycles is certainly regrettable, but I do know this: We have been collectively absolutely spoiled rotten. Right now, at this moment, we have more choice in the music that we want to listen to, and it is more easily available to us, than to any other people in the history of the world. There is only one good classical record store within a two hour radius of where I live (Streetside Records in St. Louis), but every time I go there, I am amazed at the dozens and hundreds of new and old recordings that I have never seen or heard before. I guess I'm saying we should count our blessings.

We should probably also go to more concerts. And take a friend. Or your children. :) My eight year old son likes listening to *NSync, but he also likes listening to harpsichord. Who am I to argue? I grew up alternating between Beethoven and Beatles.

Piotr Jaworski wrote (February 8, 2002):
[To Michael Grover] For the record - those were only "innocent examples". And I hope that none is actually offended. I only wanted to describe certain trends within the "Big Record Companies". I'm not thrashing the other music - rock, punk, alternative, jazz etc., etc.

I grew up with Sex Pistols, The Clash, King Crimson, Pink Floyd ...... as much as with Vivaldi, Beethoven, Chopin or Haydn... And eternally - Hats Off to Sir McCartney!!!

Everywhere - you're right! No need to argue then.

Dave Harman wrote (February 9, 2002):
< Ludwig wrote: I seems to be that Warner has an anti-Bach attitude based on behavior of the past 30 years. >
Whatever their attitude, it really hurts to collect Vols 1 - 11 and then have the bottom drop out of the project. Although I do read good reviews on the Suzuki/BIS set, I'm resigned to having to buy duplicates.

Koopman's web site announced Vol 12 was released but so far it hasn't surfaced.

Perhaps our Don Satz could do some reviews of the Bach Cantatas.

Kirk McElhearn wrote (February 9, 2002):
[To Dave Harman] It looks like you are not a member of the Bach Cantatas mailing list, where we discuss nothing but different recordings of the cantatas.

Go here to find out more:
http://www.mcelhearn.com/bach.html

Joost wrote (February 10, 2002):
Today I received the subscription form for next season's four concerts in Ton Koopman's Bachcantata series. So at least this part of his project will be continued.

Charlie Ervin McCarn wrote (February 11, 2002):
< Warner Bros stops Koopman's Cantatas cycle. >
Outrageous!

Cantatas Cut

Simon Roberts wrote (February 8, 2002):
< Thomas Wood wrote: Strange, I was just looking at Ton Koopman's website today and there was a table showing which cantatas would appear in which volume, almost as if the whole thing was in the can already. >
The same's true of Hogwood's Haydn series; I don't think it means much....

Roger Whitlock wrote (February 8, 2002):
< Charles Francis quoted: "...we need to spend more time marketing more effectively to the consumer..."
This means "spend more time in the john sniffing white powder,applying hair mousse, and making sure the dye in our chest hair isn't coming out."

Note the stupid tautological turn of phrase "market to the consumer." To whom else would you market? The pet canary?

Like MBA's, accountants, and lawyers, marketing people should *never* be allowed to decide how a business is to be run. Keep them in strongly locked iron cages except when you need their specific skills.

"Here, this is this year's classical release sheet: go out and sell the things."

Eltjo Meijer wrote (February 8, 2002):
< Charles Francis wrote: 'the complete Bach cantata series that Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and Choir have been recording for Erato will be discontinued due to "scale and expense," according to Cosgrove'

'We have to look at the profiles of our artists and at the available space for retailing classical product. And we need to spend more time marketing more effectively to the consumer rather than indulging in vanity projects.' >
From the article:
"(...) the record company's massive cutbacks last year, which prompted the closure of the offices of the Teldec label in Hamburg and the Erato label in Paris - and brought a 90 percent cut in Warner's classical music payroll."

Universal, or whatever the call themselves these days, have done something similar.

It's bad news for orchestras and other classical musicians from
continental Europe.

Matthew Silverstein wrote (February 9, 2002):
MBT wrote: [snip]
What is the big deal? Does anyone find it surprising that the classical music CD market cannot sustain another complete (and mediocre) cycle of Bach cantatas? How many people are there out there who are going to buy these?

Evan Johnson (February 9, 2002):
<< MBT wrote: I am just sick and tired of these incompetents making their stupid and offensive (and just plain BAD) business decisions and destroying the field for us, and I think it's high time for a campaign to have one of them get his career terminated. >>
< Matthew Silverstein wrote: But where is the evidence that this was a stupid, offensive, or bad business decision? >
Haven't you been paying attention? Tepper interprets anything that doesn't pretend that he is the most important consumer in the world as a stupid, offensive, AND bad business decision.

Koopman’s Bach Cantata Cycle

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 10, 2002):
Regarding Warner's decision to discontinue Koopman's cantata project, here are some facts.

(a) The original plan was to issue the complete cantata cycle on 20 volumes, perhaps more. 12 of which have already been released. Vol. 13, 14, and 15 are already recorded.

(b) Koopman records twice a year, and the next session which starts in a few weeks is Vol. 16. It is with soloists Johannette Zomer, Bogna Bartosz, Christoph Pregardien and Klaus Mertens. Koopman has also finished recording most of the important solo and dialogue cantatas last June, which was supposed to appear later in the series.

(c) It is very unlikely at this point, that Warner will change its decision. They know it is a successful series that sells - in a classical music sense - well. It seems to be a purely business decision, which must be taking over all the big record companies.

(d) However, Koopman seems to have decided to go ahead with the recordings anyway, and hopes to bring them to public in one way or another.

To sum up, Warner will stop, but Koopman has decided to continue.

The common denominator to all the members in the BCML and many additional members in the BRML is their love for the Bach Cantatas. The three already complete cantata cycles (Rilling, Harnoncourt& Leonhardt, Leusink) are not to everybody's taste, and each one of them has its own deficiencies. There is a need for more complete cantata cycles, and Koopman has done enough to prove that his renditions can in many cases be counted among the best. There are about 220 members in the BCML and this means power to influence. If the members believe that it is a real shame that Warner stops this beautiful series and would like to make the effort to send Warner a petition, it is of course so much better than nothing, and I believe it would encourage Koopman and his group.

Kirk McElhearn wrote (February 10, 2002):
< Aryeh Oron wrote: If the members believe that it is a real shame that Warner stops this beautiful series and would like to make the effort to send Warner a petition, it is of course so much better than nothing, and I believe it would encourage Koopman and his group. >
I certainly think this would be a good thing to try...

Riccardo Nughes wrote (February 10, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thanks for the info. For me it's a good idea, let's try it!

Jill wrote (February 11, 2002):
[To Riccardo Nughes] Where do we write?

Philip Peters wrote (February 11, 2002):
[To Riccardo Nughes] I'm game.

Dave Harman wrote (February 11, 2002):
Thanks so much for the info about Koopman's Bach Cantata cycle. So glad to know Koopman hasn't given up. However, I have a couple of questions, if you could please respons I would be grateful.

First, Koopman's web site announced the release of Vol 12 in November. To date I have not been able to find it anywhere. Do you know somewhere in the States where it is carried ? Do you know anywhere in the world where it is carried ?

Second, if Koopman is going to continue, how will future volumes be released ?

Riccardo Nughes wrote (February 11, 2002):
[To Dave Harman] I don't know if vol.12 has been released in the US, but in Europe was distribuited with regularity :
see at http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000059ZHQ or at
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000059ZHQ

< Second, if Koopman is going to continue, how and where will future volumes be released ? >
Who knows? I think that the situation is very complex. Koopman has recorded unrelased (yet) cantatas but these recordings are property of Erato-WB. They can do with them what they want..

I hope Koopman and WB will find a gentlemen's agreement, leaving free the director to go on with his complete project. My opinion, however, is that WB wilrepackage the cantatas until vol.12 at mid or even low price, possibly in the "Ultima" serie, or they will publish some large boxes (similar to the Richter boxes on DG).

Joao Feraro wrote (February 11, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] I tottaly agree and support the idea. What can we do? Where do we write?

Richard Grant wrote (February 12, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] This is very good news indeed!

Pablo Fagoaga wrote (February 13, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Amen, Aryeh, Amen.

I was thinking exactly that: if we REALLY are so many people, some mailings requesting Warner to go on issuing the series should work. Otherwise, may be we are not so many entusiastic people....and Warner would have a point on that... Any suggestions on the destination to which we should address the requests?

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 13, 2002):
[To Pablo Fagoaga] I absolutely agree. Go to the page:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Koopman-Petition.htm
Everything regarding the petition is written there. You are invited to send your own opinion to the e-mail address:
aryehoron@yahoo.com

Koopman’s Petition

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 11, 2002):
Yesterday I wrote to you as follows regarding Warner's decision to stop the project of recording the complete Bach Cantatas by Tom Koopmam:

"The common denominator to all the members in the BCML and many additional members in the BRML is their love for the Bach Cantatas. The three already complete cantata cycles (Rilling, Harnoncourt& Leonhardt, Leusink) are not to everybody's taste, and each one of them has its own deficiencies. There is a need for more complete cantata cycles, and Koopman has done enough to prove that his renditions can in many cases be counted among the best. There are about 220 members in the BCML and this means power to influence. If the members believe that it is a real shame that Warner stops this beautiful series and would like to make the effort to send Warner a petition, it is of course so much better than nothing, and I believe it would encourage Koopman and his group."

Following your feedback I opened a special e-mail address to which you are invited to send your requests regarding the continuation of this important project:

The e-mail addess is: aryehoron@yahoo.com

My intention is to compile all your messages and to send them both to Warner Group and Koopman Website. I hope that in that way we can be of some help in encouraging the continuation of this project.

Santu De Silva wrote (February 11, 2002):
It has been announced by the new CEO of Warner records (the parent company of the Erato label) that Ton Koopman's complete Bach cantata series is to be discontinued.

This series has received mixed reviews, but in my humble opinion, it is a well-produced and carefully recorded series, featuring if not the absolute best soloists, at least soloists who are never less than competent. The choir is excellent, and the orchestra is beyond reproach. They have a wonderful warm sound, brisk tempi, in line with most of the performers of the 'authentic' school, but not too rushed.

Those of you who have begun to collect this series, or who for any reason feel that the series deserves to be completed, may write to the address at the end of the message. The original invitation (set to the Bach Cantata List) is above.

Santu De Silva wrote (February 11, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] I hope you don't mind: I have taken the liberty of circulating this request on the Bach-List. I doubt that it will receive much attention, but you may pick up a few signatures, so I didn't see the harm in doing it.

Richard Grant wrote (February 12, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] I would be happy to join such a petition.

Petition to Warner against their decision to discontinue Koopman's project of recording the complete Bach Cantatas

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 12, 2002):
I compiled the messages that have been sent so far in the following page:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Koopman-Petition.htm
There is also a link to this page from the Home Page of the Bach Cantatas Website:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/

You are invited to send your opinions to the following e-mail address:
aryehoron@yahoo.com

Harry J. Steinman wrote (February 12, 2002):
First of all, thanks to Aryeh for organizing an e-mail petition to continue the Koopman series.

In addition to e-mail, I suggest that List members also send a letter, regular mail, to request the series be kept alive. I believe that postal requests have a greater impact than e-mail as it shows an even greater effort on the part of the writer.

The Chairman and CEO of Warner is Roger Ames. The mailing address for parent company AOL Time Warner is 75 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10019, USA.

I urge those who care to write in addition to emailing through Aryeh's petition.



Continue on Part 3