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Suites for Solo Cello BWV 1007-1012
General Discussions - Part 2 |
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Continue from Part 1 |
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Test question No. 2 |
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Mats W. wrote (May 2, 2004):
I'm interested in how you judge this performance of the prelude in Bach's third cello suite (guess who's the cellist?) (WMA 0.7 Mb) http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/cello3_1.wma |
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Neil Halliday wrote ((May 2, 2004):
[To Mats W.] The distortion on the first low note gives it away - it's one of your 'creations' ie, a remarkably speeded-up performance of some hapless cellist. |
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Torleif Thedéen's Suites? |
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Mats W. wrote (May 3, 2004):
In Sarabande, Bergman's latest film (2003) Marianne (Liv Ullman) is about to leave the church when the solo cello (playing the Sarabande in the 5:th cello suite) is heard and the church is filled with light. He must think that Bach's music comes from God, as evinced in many other of his films.
Anyway, it's Thedéen's version that is played and I got curious. Is it any good? At Amazom.com.uk the reviewer says something to the effect that it's mechanical. But at Amazon.com a reviewer says that it's the best he has heard. I feel reluctant at buying yet another version because I already got four versions. |
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Peter Bright wrote (May 4, 2004):
[To Mats W.] I have this recording and really enjoy it. Some of the movements are taken at breakneck speed (particularly the prelude in C major), which can be a problem, though. I remember that one of the BBC Radio 3 reviewers in their end of year review of the time rated it as their favourite CD. Also the BBC Music Magazine gave it a glowing review.
However, you should definitely try to listen beofre buying. The player brings a straightforward approach to the suites, with very little in the way of exaggerated bowing or pausing to emphasise particular parts of each movement. I think the approach he uses is that such music does not need pointers or gestures to indicate to the listener 'Now listen! This is a really emotional bit so pay attention'. To my mind, his approach is like a breath of fresh air and the continuity of phrasing works really well. However, others may see it as performance which robs the music of its warmth and beauty. As I say, it's a personal thing... |
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Mats W. wrote (May 5, 2004):
[To Peter Bright] Thanks. It sounds interesting. Ingmar Bergman likes it, too, and he should know. |
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Donald Satz wrote (May 3, 2004):
[To Mats W.] Four is a small number - you need to get more, assuming you love these suites. |
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Truls Mork recording the Cello Suites |
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Ehud Shiloni wrote (June 24, 2019):
Here is a link: http://www.torvund.net/norway/music/truls_mork.asp
And here's a copy/paste from that page - I hope it stays legible:
Truls Mørk, or Truls Mork, as his name is spelled in languages that do not have the letter "ø", is one of the top cellists in the world. He received a Grammy Award in 2001 in the category Best Classical Performance-Instrumental Soloist(s) (without orchestra), for his recording of Britten Cello Suites (1 - 3).
Currently (January 2004), he is recording Johan Sebastiann Bach's Cello Suites on the world's most famous cello: The Stradivari cello known as The Bass of Spain. According to Truls Mørk, it is very well suited for thses cello suites.
Unquote.
It seems we have something to look forward to.
Anyone knows anything about that Stradivari instrument? |
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Maurice Gendron Recording of The Cello Suites 1964 |
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Michelle Bisset wrote (August 8, 2004):
Does anyone here know any details about the cello played by Maurice Gendron on the 1964 recording for Phillips Classics of Bach's six cello suites. If anyone can name the maker and put a date on it I would be very greatful. |
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Chopin 1012 wrote (August 11, 2004):
[To Michelle Bisset] Gendron's cello, which he owned for over 30 years, was made by Stradivarius in 1693. Maria Kliegel now owns this amazing instrument. She was given the cello by the Foundation for the Arts and Culture in North Rhine Westphalia (Stiftung fur Kunst und Kultur in NRW).
I haven't heard any of her recordings, but apparently Rostropovich was impressed..."the best cellist I've heard since Jacqueline du Pré."
I heard that she will be recording Bach's solo cello suites as well (or maybe she has already, I'm not sure). |
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Michelle Bisset wrote (August 12, 2004):
[To Chopin] Thanks for the info on the Maurice Gendron cello. The reason I was interested to know was that I bought a very nice cello recently, and believe it or not, it sounds exactly like the cello on that recording. It's a contemporary instrument made by an English Luthier. My teacher told me that the arching was exactly the same as a Strad and he absolutely loves it. He wants to borrow it to play two of the suites at a recital he's doing shortly. |
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Edmund Kurtz, cellist and editor of the Bach cello suites |
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Teri Noel Towe wrote (August 24, 2004):
Click here: Edmund Kurtz, cellist and editor of the Bach cello suites |
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Bach's Cello Suites on DVD |
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Jacek Niecko wrote (August 24, 2004):
Whoever reviewed for www.amazon.com the EMI DVD production of Bach's Cello Suites through the instrumentality of Slava Rostropovich deserves both recognition and gratitude. |
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About The Cello Suites [Beginners Bach] |
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Sw Anandgyan wrote (August 29, 2004):
I haven't immersed myself in the Bach non-vocal music yet but I'm preparing the plunge for when the urge will hit ...
I have two recordings of the Cello Suites and I realized that both are on a period-instrument;
Heinrich Schiff on EMI
Sergei Istomin on Analekta
Although I could be wrong about the first one mentioned, I would like to have at least one modern-instrument version of this oeuvre.
I have read, and heard, a lot of good things about Pierre Fournier on DG and I was curious about your opinions of the reissue of the set recorded by Maurice Gendron on Philips DUO too.
Your comments will be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Donald Satz wrote (August 29, 2004):
[To Sw Anadgyan] I believe the Schiff is not on a baroque cello. Both Fournier and Gendron are excellent choices. Although considered too mainstream and bland by some, the two MA versions on Sony sit well with me. |
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Solo Cello Suites |
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Sw Anandgyan wrote (September 27, 2004):
I've become slightly infatuated with the Solo Cello Suites, BWV 1007 and its prelude is where I find myself moved, interested and prone to collect different versions.
Studying the BCW, I've trusted some opinions and opted for Bylsma I over his second recordings, managed to purchase Robert Cohen on the Regis label, Wispelwey II, some neglected names such as Istomin ... I think that Pierre Fournier on DG is a must so eventually it should find itself in my possible listening choices, at least I have his live recording already. I am very satisfied with the Maurice Gendron recording and I'm asking about Tortelier.
There has been a reissue ( GROC ) of his '83 recording, how does it compare to his '61 one that I may still be able to purchase at budget price ?
Mentions of award winning do impress me.
How come there's like a four minutes difference between his Cello Suite # 1 ?
I don't understand what gets to be " repeated " if that's a bit of the answer ... |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (September 27, 2004):
Sw Anadgyan wrote:
> I've become slightly infatuated with the Solo Cello Suites, BWV 1007 and its prelude is where I find myself moved, interested and prone to collect different versions. (...)
How come there's like a four minutes difference between his [Tortelier's] Cello Suite # 1 ?
I don't understand what gets to be " repeated " if that's a bit of the answer ... <
I haven't heard the Tortelier recordings. But, in BWV 1007, every movement except the Prelude has notated repeats of each half. If a performer skips some of those repeats, it could change the overall timing of the suite by four minutes or more, easily. |
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John Pike wrote (September 28, 2004):
[To Bradley Lehman] I have the Tortelier recordings, I suspect the later ones, but I'm not sure. I thoroughly enjoy them andwould still recommend them, despite some stiff competition. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (September 28, 2004):
[To John Pike] Anybody here a fan of the first two suites as played by the teenaged Jacqueline duPre, recorded in January 1962? I put them on occasionally and enjoy them for her musical intensity (as she always had) if not anything to do with Baroque styles. |
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Teri Noel Towe wrote (September 29, 2004):
[To John Pike] Paul Tortelier made two complete recordings of the 'Cello Suites. The earlier one dates from the 50s and is mono only, as I recall.
In addition to the later recordings, there is, if my memory is serving me properly, a CBC broadcast recording of one of the Suites, too.
I am not near my copies, but will try to remember to follow up for you. |
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Recommandations For The Solo Cello Suites [Beginners Bach] |
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Sw Anandgyan wrote (October 19, 2004):
[To Donald Satz] I just read your review of a reissue at the MusicWeb site: http://tinyurl.com/54sgt
Out of the three names you mention, I know of only Jaap ter Linden.
I assume you have heard of Ophelie Gaillard: http://www.opheliegaillard.com/ |
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Cello Suite on Naxos |
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Sw Anandgyan wrote (February 19, 2005):
I'm not well-versed in Bach's solo music but the very first Cello Suite sure did strike me and I enjoy the variety of recordings.
I came back home with the Mahler's 5 Rückertlieder with Dame Janet Baker and Sir John Barbirolli tonight but did bother to listen to the first prelude of the Naxos CD from Maria Kliegel.
At that price, and on a period intrument, it's only a matter of time before I acquire this complete set.
What say you? |
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Mainardi - Bach's 4th Suite for Unaccompanied Cello |
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Andrew (Pristine Audio) wrote (March 31, 2005):
I thought you might be interested to know that we've just reissued a wonderful restored 1951 recording of Enrico Mainardi playing the Fourth Suite for Cello, BVW1010, at Pristine Audio Direct.
The recording was made for Decca and has been expertly restored by Peter Harrison of disk2disc, and is now available as an immediate download or as a CD. The fourth movement, the Sarabande, is freely available in its entirety for all to download.
I hope you'll enjoy this wonderful recording at: http://www.pristineaudiodirect.com/ |
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Which Bylsma is which? |
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Tom Dent wrote (April 14, 2005):
I'm trying to buy the earlier (1979?) Bylsma recording of Cello Suites. But the Amazon information is paltry to say the least. You can't tell whether a CD is a reissue of one or the other! Some have a note on the picture saying 'Stradivarius' which identifies the later recording, and some of them you can tell from the reviews.
But can anyone can tell me which is which from these?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004UTCS/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004UTCS/
'Essential Classics' 0608802
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000069JK4/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000069JK4/
Cat. I513659 |
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Bradlery Lehman wrote (April 14, 2005):
[To Tom Dent] The Sony "Essential Classics" discs 61811 and 61812, both re-released 1999, are the 1979 recordings. April 23-26 1979 on suites 1-3, and May 14-16 on the suites 4-6. These CDs have the prominent "Essential Classics" on a white and maroon cover.
I don't know one way or the other about the other issue with the yellow covers. |
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Uri Golomb wrote (April 14, 2005):
I think your best course is to compare the CD numbers with those listed in Anner Bylsma's Sony discography --http://sonyclassical.com/artists/bylsma -- which contains links to his recordings, including the year of recording. The Essential Classics discs are clearly of the 1979 version; in fact, judging from this webpage and the links from it, it seems that all *separate* releases (that is, those divided into two separate CDs, instead of a single 2-CD set) are of the earlier version. |
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Robin Kinros wrote (April 14, 2005):
[To Bradley Lehman] Seems to be quite a muddle. But yes, the 1979 recordings are now on the Essential Classics label. It might seem that the yellow (orange?) covered CDs are of the later (1992) recording. But the Sony website doesn't do much to clear that up.
http://home.att.ne.jp/moon/tsumu/Anner_Bylsma/Bylsma_Discography.html
sheds a bit of light, though doesn't cover the current issues
In any event, I would steer clear of Amazon altogether (rapacious, low-wage-paying company, now in the league of MacDonalds, Wall-Mart, et al). The more territory Amazon conquers, the more unreliable and confusing it may be as a source of information. |
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Donald Satz wrote (April 14, 2005):
[To Robin Kinross] It's simple. The 2-cd orange set is from 1992 (no. 48047); all the rest are from 1979. |
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Teddy Kaufman wrote (April 14, 2005):
[To Tom Dent] I have both Bylsma recordings of Bach's Cello Suites.
Enclosed please find the CDs details:
The 1979 recording : Sony Essential Classics, # 0608802001/1 - 2.Cover : A red flower, background- white + pink.
The 1992 recording (Jan. 29-31,at the American Academy of Arts & Letters) : Vivarte - Sony Classical , # S2K 48047, performed on a Stradivaius "Servais" from the Smithsonian Institution. Suite # 6 : 5 string cello piccolo, Tirol, circa 1700. Cover : An Artist playing a Roman style Baroque cello, background : pink- red. |
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Bradlery Lehman wrote (April 16, 2005):
[To Teddy Kaufman] A point that interests me is: what *musical* and interpretive differences do you hear between the two? (I have only the 1979 of his.)
Similarly, I have both the Wispelwey recordings and they're fewer years apart than that; and the interpretation is so different in both cases that I couldn't do without either one. Generally his second one is more freewheeling and "gestural" with more sprezzatura, seeming more casual even while it's focused. I enjoy hearing a great and imaginative artist rethinking the music on different occasions, and playing it very well (but differently) both times, since the music itself is so multi-faceted and responsive to different approaches.
By the same token, I love the classic Casals recording and wish he had done it two or three more times, letting us hear more facets to his musicianship. |
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Teddy Kaufman wrote (April 16, 2005):
[To Bradley Lehman] I have several recordings as follows: Pablo Casalss, both Yo Yo Ma, Andre Navara, Paul Totrtelier, Pierre Fournier, Rostopovitch (1995), Ralph Kirshbaum, Peter Bruns, both Bylsma, Robert Cohen, Mischa Maisky, Paolo Pandolfo (playing the Viola da Gamba), Brunu Cocset and , Jaap ter Linden. Both Wispeley recordings are on their way to my collection.
Both Bylsma recordings differ substantially from each other, in several aspects (to my amateur ears and understanding). First , I enjoy both of them . The second recording is a digitalized one and hence, technically is significantly better. The Stradivari "Servais" of the second recording is to my ears an unique instrument in the sense of depth, resonance and performance. The gut strings of this cello contribute to the resonance similarily to that of the Viola d'Amore. The interpretation of Bylsma is quite different, and in the 1992 recording he is much more mature. In this respect I wish to refer you to an interview with the Maestro as follows: http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/bylsma.htm
One personal aspect : Almost every morning I start my surgery session listening Bylsma's (1992) 5th suite on a mp3. You could imagine that it drives me into another Galaxy which improves both my moods and technical skills.
Hope you enjoy it, |
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cello suites |
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M.W. Grover wrote (May 2, 2005):
Anyone have any of the following sets othe cello suites? Comments?
Yuli Turovsky - Chandos
Jorg Metzger - Campion
Morthen Zeuthen - Scandinavian Classics |
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Wispelwey live |
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Tom Dent wrote (May 24, 2005):
He is on Radio 3 just at the moment, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3, doing all 6 of what an unaccompanied cellist does.
I don't go for his style very much (posturing rather than gesturing?), but de gustibus and all that. |
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Cello Suites BWV 1007-1012 |
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Thomas Shepherd wrote (May 25, 2005):
All six 'cello suites were broadcast on BBC R3 this evening. It was quite a remarkable evening of music performed by the Dutch cellist Pieter Wispelwey.
For the next week they can be heard and can heard via the web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/index.shtml?logo
Follow"Listen Again" > "Performance" > "Tue". |
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Charles Francis wrote (May 25, 2005):
[To Thomas Shepherd] Heard them, thanks to Tom Dent's announcement. Couldn't decide whether the performances were rhetorical or theatrical. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (May 26, 2005):
[To Thomas Shepherd] I just got through the D minor sarabande, second suite, in this broadcast. It left me with gooseflesh on both arms, in a good way. Bravo, what a beautiful and moving performance!
I also liked Wispelwey's spoken comments in the interval before this piece:
about how it's sometimes musically useful to do something that's questionably wise, as to taking chances in performance and interpretation, and as to not always deciding ahead of time how the performance is going to go. The sense of spontaneity and exploration in this particular performance indeed sounds real and focused, even after (as he remarked) he's been working on these pieces for 35 years.
Again, bravo on this outstanding musicianship and willingness to put the music across so clearly and spontaneously. Wow. Inspiring.
On to the third suite ff in tomorrow's listening session..... |
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Bach Cello Suite #1 |
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Sandra Beane wrote (June 7, 2005):
There is a piece that can be played with the first Bach suite for unaccompanied cello. Is it the Air on G? Ave Maria? Jesu?
I have forgotten. |
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Steve Schwartz wrote (June 7, 2005):
[To Sandra Beane] Wow......I just joined this group and it seems to be a lot of advertisements...nonetheless, I'll ask my question.
I'm a multi-instrumentalist, but viola is arguably my main instrument. I know that (arguably) the best version of the cello suites to get for cello is Bärenreiter. It seems that there are a lot of really bad editions for viola, though, and no Bärenreiter (at least I've never seen it). What's the best of the worst? Peters seems OK, Ricordi is awful....should I even bother with International?
If anyone has info, please let me know. |
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Mimi Ezust wrote (June 7, 2005):
[To Sandra Beane] Can you be thinking of the Gounod Ave Maria that works with 99% of the first prelude to the Bach Well Tempered Clavichord? Gounod had to add a measure to make it work out properly. |
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Sandra Beane wrote (June 8, 2005):
You guys maybe right. It has been awhile since I have heard it. I was also thinking that maybe it was Ave Maria with Jesu.
Thank you. |
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Favorite Cello Suites recordings? |
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Drew wrote (January 11, 2006):
Recently I have been listening to the cello suites (after a long hiatus), and feel the need to "branch out" further -- i.e., to hear fresh / additional interpretations to broaden my understanding of these works.
I am familiar with the following recordings:
Beschi
Bylsma I, II
Carrai
Cassals
Cohen
Dieltiens
Fournier
Istomin
Kirschbaum
Ma I, II
Maisky II
Pandolfo
Rostropovich
Schiff
Starker II
ter Linden
Thedeen
Wispelwey II
Some recordings that I am interested in, but unfamiliar with:
Bruns
Cocset
Haimovitz
Harnoncourt
Navarra
Pergamenschikow
Sheppard
*Suzuki I, II
I was wondering if fellow group members would be willing to share favorite recordings of the cello suites and what particularly they enjoy about these readings / recordings.
My favorite recordings (at the moment):
HIP: Ophelie Gaillard
Non-HIP: Yo-Yo Ma I
Honourable Mention: Paolo Pandolfo (viola da gamba)
Thanks, |
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Drew wrote (January 11, 2006):
I just noticed that Truls Mork's new cello suites recording is one of the "Editor's Choices" for the February 2006 issue of Gramophone: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/Choice_Gram_feb2006/5456502.htm
Does anyone know further details about this recording / performer? |
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Joost wrote (January 11, 2006):
Drew wrote:
> I was wondering if fellow group members would be willing to share favorite recordings of the cello suites and what particularly they enjoy about these readings / recordings. <
Last week I learned that Pieter Wispelwey recorded the suites for a third time - they will be released before long'. |
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Peter Bright wrote (January 11, 2006):
[To Drew] One not mentioned much is the version by Torleif Thedéen on BIS from two or three years back. It got a fantastic write-up in BBC Music Magazine - I find it a very refreshing approach, though my favourite overall is probably the Bylsma (II) or Casals. Thedeen is VERY different from these two - little in the way of romantic emphases, he prefers to 'play it straight' - but the production of the recording and quality of his playing is of a very high standard - well worth a listen... |
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Drew wrote (January 11, 2006):
[To Peter Bright] Thanks for the comments. I used to own the Thedeen (it was available at Berkshire Record Outlet), but for some reason did not come to enjoy it as much as others that I have. So I sold it.
I also enjoy the Bylsma II -- love the deep, resonant sound of that Smithsonian Stradivarius (Cremona, 1701). If Wispelwey is giving the suites a third shot in the studio, Bylsma should as well. |
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Joost wrote (January 11, 2006):
Drew wrote:
> [...] If Wispelwey is giving the suites a third shot in the studio, Bylsma should as well. <
I couldn't agree more, especially after his book 'The Fencing Master'! But unfortunately it seems that Anner Bijlsma has been forced to end his performing career, because of problems with his left little finger. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (January 11, 2006):
>>> Recently I have been listening to the cello suites (after a long hiatus), and feel the need to "branch out" further -- <<<
Harnoncourt
I had this one about 5 years ago, from Musical Heritage Society, and they still offer it. I believe it's on deeply discounted sale right now, last time I looked (last week). Check it out there if interested. But I personally wasn't very satisfied with it, and I eventually sold my copy. The interpretation just seemed too plain and unremarkable to me, and that was surprising: given the way Harnoncourt as ensemble player and conductor often turns in such imaginative/engaging work.
Good to see there's a Wispelwey #3 on the way, if it's anything like those concert performances that were broadcast/webcast on the BBC in 2004. Wow. Already the Wispelwey #1 and #2 were some of my favorites anyway.
Another way to "branch out" in the cello suites is to hear them on disparate instrumentation. There's the classic set of some of them transcribed/played by Leonhardt on harpsichord. There's Nigel North playing his own transcriptions on lute (excellent -- grab those also at MHS if you're there looking at Harnoncourt). There are the Duarte transcriptions for guitar. There's Marion Verbruggen playing these suites on solo recorder. There's Leendert de Jonge on modern flute. You've already mentioned Pandolfo on viola da gamba; in addition to his complete set, there's #5 done earlier as his filler on the accompanied sonatas disc.
There's also Leopold Godowsky's wildly souped-up harmonies in the violin solo sonatas/partitas arranged for piano, and the cello suites too. I have Thomas Labe's "transcendental Bach" disc offering some of those, plus part of the Godowsky series on Marco Polo.
And of course Bach's own G minor lute setting of cello suite #5, as BWV 995.
Some year I'll get around to writing out (or composing more carefully) my harpsichord and clavichord impfrom these suites. It's fun to sit down with the cello scores and just make up stuff, treating those as a sketch. |
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Craig Schweickert wrote (January 11, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
> Another way to "branch out" in the cello suites is to hear them on disparate instrumentation. There's the classic set of some of them transcribed/played by Leonhardt on harpsichord. There's Nigel North playing his own transcriptions on lute (excellent -- grab those also at MHS if you're there looking at Harnoncourt). There are the Duarte transcriptions for guitar. There's Marion Verbruggen playing these suites on solo recorder. There's Leendert de Jonge on modern flute. You've already mentioned Pandolfo on viola da gamba; in addition to his complete set, there's #5 done earlier as his filler on the accompanied sonatas disc. <
Not to mention Wilbert Hazelzet's performance of his own transcriptions for transverse flute: http://www.glossamusic.com/catalogue/0804.htm |
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Ehud Shiloni wrote (January 11, 2006):
[To Drew] If you liked Beschi [as I do] you should also try Ophelie Gaillard, on Ambroisie label. Lots of authority and panache. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (January 11, 2006):
Craig Schweickert wrote:
> Not to mention Wilbert Hazelzet's performance of his own transcriptions for transverse flute: http://www.glossamusic.com/catalogue/0804.htm <
Indeed, an amazing album. Some of my old rants about how much I like it (with some incidental mentions of Wispelwey on cello):
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/1135
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/7753
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_3_120/ai_97450792
Last year I gave a copy of that disc to a friend whose brother had just died. Such comforting and soulful musicianship in Hazelzet's playing, there. Part of that is of course also due to Bach's ability to pack such music into a single melodic line! |
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Donald Satz wrote (January 12, 2006):
[To Joost] Maybe Wispelwey will get it right - third time can be the charm. |
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Philip Peters wrote (January 12, 2006):
Brad Lehman wrote:
> Another way to "branch out" in the cello suites is to hear them on disparate instrumentation. There's the classic set of some of them transcribed/played by Leonhardt on harpsichord. There's Nigel North playing his own transcriptions on lute (excellent -- grab those also at MHS if you're there looking at Harnoncourt). There are the Duarte transcriptions for guitar. There's Marion Verbruggen playing these suites on solo recorder. There's Leendert de Jonge on modern flute. You've already mentioned Pandolfo on viola da gamba; in addition to his complete set, there's #5 done earlier as his filler on the accompanied sonatas disc. <
In addition to those I have them played by Henk van Twillert on *baritone saxophone*. Somewhat less exotic Primrose recorded BWV.1007-1011 on viola as did Simon Rowland-Jones (BWV.1010-1012). Also Gerd Reinke recorded the whole set on contrabass. |
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Henri Sanguinetti wrote (January 12, 2006):
[To Peter Bright] You did not mention Tortelier and Gendron. Tortelier in some occasions brought me what I wanted to hear. May be overboard, keeps you up.Gendron is remarquably suiting all moods. A beautiful sounding cello too. May be with Fournier and Bylsma II the ones I like to listen to more often. |
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Sw Anandgyan wrote (January 12, 2006):
Drew wrote:
[snip]
> I was wondering if fellow group members would be willing to share favorite recordings of the cello suites and what particularly they enjoy about these readings / recordings.
My favorite recordings (at the moment):
HIP: Ophelie Gaillard
Non-HIP: Yo-Yo Ma I
Honourable Mention: Paolo Pandolfo (viola da gamba) <
I do have the Cocset recording and the sound is rich though with so much veracity that it may cause you some concern.
Are you willing to hear all those extraneous noises such as breathing, scratching and what have you?
I was surprised not to see the mention of Murice Gendron for it was my very first Solo Cello Suites purchase and I return to it often.
Lately there has been the acquisition of the set from Velitchka Yotcheva.
I doubt it'll become someone's favourite rendition but I cannot find much fault with it.
Granted my expertise is close to zilch, I just know when it pleases me.
happy listening |
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Maurice Gendron - Bach Cello Suites |
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Michelle Bisset wrote (August 29, 2006):
Would anyone here be able to advise if there are any video/DVD recordings available of Maurice Gendron playing any of the suites for solo cello.
Also does anyone know if his arrangement is available as I would like to study his bow technique for these pieces. |
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Cello Suites by Gavriel Lipkind |
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Paul Dirmeikis wrote (December 17, 2008):
I recently had the opportunity to discover what I would state as being the most extraordinary recording of the Cello Suites I ever listened to.
I had never heard about this cellist before. Gavriel Lipkind, born in 1977 in Israel. At the age of 23, he went into 4 years of sabbatical isolation, then recorded in 2006, on his own label, the Cello Suites, playing a 1702 Italian cello which has such a wonderful, deep, and moving timbre.
I've checked the Bach Recordings website, but this recording doesn't seem to be listed, and I've found no comment about it. But maybe did I miss it?
It simply seems as if every note of these Suites are full of life and meaning. The 6 Suites sing, weep, dance, laugh, lament and burst as I've never heard them. The playing of this cellist grasps you, and there's no way escaping from the magical and hypnotical sound world this young man offers us. You hear a human soul, with its most varied landscapes, its rivers, its floods, its brightness and its darkness.
Visit his website : http://www.lipkind.info/ (which is graphically beautiful too).
Listen to him. You won't be disappointed. |
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J.F. Laurson wrote (December 18, 2008):
Paul Dirmeikis wrote:
> I recently had the opportunity to discover what I would state as being the most extraordinary recording of the Cello Suites I ever listened to. <
I had the pleasure to review that recording a while back.
Extraordinary is certainly the right word.
From my review (which goes on to compare to Queyras, Isserlis, Gastinel and a few others):
[...]
Lipkind's recording on the edel classics is very special even before you've heard a single note. A more lavishly packaged set can scarcely be imagined. In a protective sleeve awaits a thick leathery box (it is made of very thick paper specially treated to imitate leather) with gold lettering and braille dots that unfolds a bit like the Isenheim Altar. In it are three hybrid-SACDs, a `map' to Lipkind's performance and ideas about the Suites, and extensive, erudite liner notes. Since the set is made by "Lipkind Productions in cooperation with edel classics", apparently the first volume in a series called "Single Voice Polyphony", the suspicion arose that this is a very, very fancy vanity production.
Maybe – probably – it is. But whether Lipkind or his father or kind private sponsors paid for this production, or a record company, is insubstantial given the contents. Certainly Gavriel Lipkind, of whom I had never heard before, hasn't recorded the set of Bach Suites to please all, but precisely in not trying to please everyone he has achieved something that, for the time being, has toppled my Cello Suite hierarchy.
The recorded sound is impressive (which also means: unsubtle), a wee bit less detailed than ideal, but incredibly natural, warm, and breathing. It's recorded at a nearly ideal distance to the cello: you don't hear every finger sliding over the strings, nor every breath, and it's not too distant, either. Occasionally things buzz a little, but tagain, so does a real cello. The richness in the tone of the Fifth Suite's Gavotte might be thought slightly muddy compared to the airy Gastinel – but elsewhere the cello's sound is among the most beautiful of the eight reviewed, even in regular CD mode.
He plays in a very individual style, varied and elastic, with accents and dynamic variations in abundance. You'd think that Lipkind would need more time than the clear Gastinel with this emotive and liberal style. He doesn't: sometimes unnoticeably, sometimes flamboyantly, he makes up for time lost with incredibly fleet and light playing, to the point of superficiality in the Gavotte II of Suite No.5, but more often to dazzling effect. "Romantic" might be a suitable description and with lots of personality. His playing reminds me a little of Christophe Rousset's style on the harpsichord. Even if you don't quite follow the elaborate and near-mystical `analysis' of the Suites [that Lipkind offers in the liner notes] (interesting though it is) and their interrelation, this is a most tempting offering for all who needn't have their Bach entirely straight-laced.
[...]
Bach, Cello Suites, Part I (Maisky DVD, general blather)
http://weta.org/fm/blog/?p=267
Bach, Cello Suites, Part II (Slava, Fournier, Isserlis, Harnoncourt)
http://weta.org/fm/blog/?p=303
Bach, Cello Suites, Part III (Gastinel, Lipkind, Queyras)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=260
Bach, Cello Suites, Post Scriptum (Klinger, Queyras)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=376 |
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Leo Ditvoorst wrote (December 21, 2008):
I read the reviews here and on other places of the net on Lipkind's performance of Bach's cello suites. Most -if not all- reviews praise Lipkind into heaven. So I decided to listen with great expectations. What I heard did not live up to that expectations: I am not convinced. Sure, the recording is something else maybe even eccentric. It is understandable that, when you record a work that has been recorded so many times, an artist wants to create something new or different. Although Lipkind put great effort to achieve this he, IMHO, lost contact with Bach.
There comes a booklet with the discs with a personal analysis of the suites, to me also eccentric but I am not an expert in this kind of things.
My advise, listen and read before you buy. |
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Paul Dirmeikis wrote (December 21, 2008):
[To Leo Ditvoorst] My intention here is not to be a Lipkind defender at all cost. It's understandable that his interpretation of Bach's Cello Suites doesn't please everyone, and even disappoints after having read so many praises, and thus having high expectations.
I recently listened to 2 arias from the SMP, sung by Kathleen Ferrier, in a 1950 recording with the Vienna Symphonic Orchestra conducted by Karajan. Usually the "Ach Golgotha" recitativo plus the "Sehet, Jesus hat die Hand" aria both clock around 4' or 4'30". Here, it's... 7'! You can imagine the tempo. Frankly, to me, the listening was kind of a (very slow) torture, even with Ferrier's marvelous voice. But I have read (not many it's true) but quite some reviews praising this historical recording. So? Does A single Bach exist? Of course not. This is what is so exciting with Bach.
Since I wrote to the list about the Lipkind recording, I have listened many more times to it, and my reaction remains the same. I am overwhelmed by its beauty. I am moved to tears by many parts, and, as I have already said, I have this feeling that every single note is played and thought related not only to the whole suite of course, but to the whole 6-Suite cycle. The construction of the cathedral has been planned and thought in every details.
I might be wrong but I precisely believe that Lipkind NEVER had in mind such a thought as "Let's play Bach's Cello Suites as it has never been done, only in order to differentiate from the existing versions". He has studied them during his 4 sabbatical years, and here's the result.I am prepared to put away all the 7 other versions of Bach's Cello Suites I have in a box in an attic, or sell them on E-Bay. I know I have found THE version that speaks the most to me.
What is so interesting is that this performance, at the same time, makes Leo Ditvoorst think that Lipkind lost contact with Bach, and makes me feel, on the contrary, that he has found the very soul of something that even goes beyond Bach.
Of course, our both reactions are equally respectable and valuable. But it obviously shows that "Bach" doesn't exist in the absolute. Bach is inherently an "interpretation".
I imagine a kind of psychoanalyst who could help you to understand yourself better only by revealing why Glenn Gould goes on your nerves, why Helmut Walcha makes you sleep, why Koopman bores you, and why Kuijken enlightens you... There would be things such as the "Tureck profile" or the "Leonhardt category"...
Warm regards, and best wishes to all for this Christmas time. |
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Paul Dirmeikis wrote (December 24, 2008):
Anne Russell wrote (December 24, 2008):"
>> I would like to add my thanks to Paul for telling us about this recording. I found it on Emusic and bought the 3rd. and 4th suites. I plan to buy more. These are truly beautiful.
Visit his website : http://www.lipkind (http://www.lipkind./) info/
(http://www.lipkind._ (http://www.lipkind./) info/)
(which is graphically beautiful too). <<
> I tried this link. It did not work. <
This is because the word "info" should be attached to the link. I probably made a mistake when I copied the link.
Try this: http://www.lipkind.info/, it should work.
I'm very happy to see that Lipkind's playing has moved other Bach music lovers. It has been my pleasure to mention this recording.
Best wishes to all for a warm and musical Xmas eve. |
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Anne (Nessie) Russell wrote (December 24, 2008):
Thanks Paul.
This one worked http://www.lipkind.info/ |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (December 25, 2008):
Paul Dirmeikis wrote:
> I recently listened to 2 arias from the SMP, sung by Kathleen Ferrier, in a 1950 recording with the Vienna Symphonic Orchestra conducted by Karajan. Usually the "Ach Golgotha" recitativo plus the "Sehet, Jesus hat die Hand" aria both clock around 4' or 4'30". Here, it's... 7'! You can imagine the tempo. Frankly, to me, the listening was kind of a (very slow) torture, even with Ferrier's marvelous voice. But I have read (not many it's true) but quite some reviews praising this historical recording. So? Does A single Bach exist? Of P course not. This is what is so exciting with Bach.
It seems to me that one must "understand" those arias (all of them within the Passion) in relationship to the "massive" length (slow tempo) of the 1950 v.K. MP, which is only slightly shorter than Klemperer's recording. Giving a fast look, seems to me that whereas in the recit.+aria you cite, Ferrier's is a little longer than Ludwig's in the Klemperer, there are other alto arias where the reverse obtains. <
Nevertheless, last time I relistened to the Klemperer (which is a painful experience for me nowadays) I found Ludwig glorious (the only glory in the performance to my ears). Probably time to relisten to the v.K. Mostly however I repair to the wonderful Verona CD where they have assembled the Ferrier arias and duets from (1) this MP, (2) the 1950 v.K. H-Moll Messe, and (3) the "Urlicht" from the renowned live 1951 Klemperer Mahler2.
As separate arias (not from complete performances) the two tenor arias from cantatas sung by the great (and occasionally eccentric) Russian tenor Kozlovsky at twice the length of the comparable arias in the L-H set (and in the Russian tongue) must take the cake.
These to my ears are enjoyable for what they are, but perhaps not as Bach. |
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Sigiswald Kuijken plays bach on violoncello da spalla |
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Leo Ditvoorst wrote (March 13, 2009):
In the search to go more and more authenSigiswald Kuijken (la petite bande) came up with something new (at least for me). Bach's cello lines are not composed for the cello as we know it, an instrument you hold between your knees, but for the violoncello da spalla, an instrument that rests on your schoulder. He recorded the cello suites with this instrument. You can find the recording on this blog: http://passacaille.blogspot.com/2009/03/jsbach-cello-suites.html
I listened to the recording and to tell you the truth, I am not convinced. Maybe some of you know some arguments pro or contra the "da spalla".
After the pedal_harpsichord this is the second "new" instrument I discovered since I joined this list. Exiting. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (March 13, 2009):
Leo Ditvoorst wrote:
> After the pedal_harpsichord this is the second "new" instrument I discovered since I joined this list. Exciting.<
I have often maintained that one can get the equivalent of a graduate degree (without the bother of the negative aspects of being an actual *grad student*!) by paying attention and asking questions of the many genuine scholars who generously share their ideas on BCW. In the present example, I find the pedal harpsichord along with Bach/Lehman tuning, as played by Peter Watchorn, to be especially enjoyable, and *cutting edge*. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (March 13, 2009):
Leo Ditvoorst wrote:
> After the pedal_harpsichord this is the second "new" instrument I discovered since I joined this list. Exciting.<
Pedal harpsichord is really a lot of fun, and gives the thrill of big turbo bass. A video of me playing one (exactly two years ago today, coincidentally): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEaeCje9K_A
I'm not quite at the level of playing whole orchestral scores on them, in improvised arrangement, as Bach reputedly sat around doing. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (March 13, 2009):
Leo Ditvoorst wrote:
> In the search to go more and more authentic Sigiswald Kuijken (la petite bande) came up with something new (at least for me). Bach's cello lines are not composed for the cello as we know it, an instrument you hold between your knees, but for the violoncello da spalla, an instrument that rests on your schoulder. <
why is this not called a violoncello da braccio vs. the regular cello which might be a violoncello da gamba.
Speaking of which, a year or so again I bought Peter Wispeley's (forgive me if I am misspelling his name, not going to check right now) viola da gamba sonatas on piccolo cello (with different accompanying instruments (piano, organ, harpsichord).
Anner Bylsma made a recording (which, alas, I missed when Broinc had it cheap and now it is an overpriced item) of these sonatas on piccolo cello some years earlier (although with regular accompaniment, to my memory). Anyone with strong feelings as to who does the better job? I do very much enjoy the Wispeley production as a whole. |
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Martin Spaink wrote (March 13, 2009):
As to the 3 sonatas for obbligato harpsichord and viola da gamba: though I can appreciate (double meaning here) that Anner Bijlsma has been on the look-out for good repertoire to play on his violoncello piccolo (his recording of bwv 1003, a-minor sonata; 1006 E-major partita for solo violin & 1013, a-minor solo for flauto traverso !!!) I really want these sonatas played on the appointed instruments. Bijlsma on the vc.picc. is in itself not a bad thing, but combined with the dark-sounding chamber organ used by Bob van Asperen it lacks, for me at least, the clarity and transparency of hpd with vdg. which is a very resonant combination but allows crisp articulation. There are many fine recordings, some great. Celine Frisch/Juan-Manuel Quintana; 2 x Wieland Kuijken, 2x Jordi Savall, Alessandrini/Pandolfo, Aapo Hakkinen/Mikko Perkola .. they keep coming regularly.
ps spelling was almost perfect: Pieter Wispelwey In fact, Eng. Peter sounds similar NL Pieter, which is different from the more common NL Peter, which is phonetically for Eng: Payhter. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (March 14, 2009):
[To Martin Spaink] Thank you very much, Martin. However (1) is it sure that the Viola da Gamba sonatas are originally written by Bach for Viola da Gamba? I have read some doubts about this. (2) Transcription is common; Leonhardt transcribes a few of the Cello Suites for Harpsichord. The one which I have sounds meaningless to me.
It is Suite no.4 and I had long looked forward to hearing it. I know that on another company's label he has done at least one other suite.As to the mentioned Viola da Gamba sonata recordings (with harpsichord), I have a few of them. In my LP days I had one LP of these sonatas with Cello and Piano, one on Viola da braccio (Bratsche or Alto) and piano, I believe, and one on Gamba with Harpsichord. I used to been very firm about the Gamba recording only, but these days I enjoy the Wispelwey recording the most after the expected ways of playing these works had grown stale for me. That sometimes happens and it is idiosyncratic to the listener, I guess.
Thanks for the Dutch lesson, |
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Júlio Galvao wrote (March 14, 2009):
There is one more beautiful recording of Bach gamba sonatas.
Its from alpha and the players are Bruno Cocset and "Les basses Réunies".
They also play some choral transcriptions and all works very well. |
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Paul Dirmeikis wrote (March 14, 2009):
This recording puzzles me.
Kuijken's recordings usually fill me with wonder and rapture, among others, the current OVPP cantatas cycle released by Accent (volume 8 will soon be available).
I certainly am not competent to debate about this violoncello da spalla "case". Did Bach have in mind or not this specific instrument when he composed these Suites? Why not? Kuijken's arguments in the booklet, as always, are very well-researched, and could be convincing, but in some way, maybe only the ear and the soul can tell if this instrument is appropriate or not.
I certainly have been conditioned by 25 years of listening to cello versions of the Suites, but I nevertheless have to say that I terribly miss here the wonderful low sounds of the cello, these sounds that make your "hara" (stomach) resonate and vibrate, opening a direct door to your deepest emotional area.
But more than that, I do miss the feeling of "singing" and "dancing" I usually have when listening to the Suites. Kuijken's interpretation surprisingly seems almost mechanical and laborious, unconcerned and aloof. I hear so little, if not at all, lyricism and élan, so little of this uneven nuances that make the dancing parts really swing. Gavriel Lipkind, for example, has even succeeded in shaping each Suite with a special "tone" and spirit, whereas Kuijken interpretation, in my hearing, is linear and unvarying all throughout the cycle.
Where has gone this feeling that the Suites are a spiritual journey, this wonderful and poignant reminiscence of a father confiding his life, his many joys and sorrows to his growing child, this intimate and deep voice accompagnying you as everlasting life markers? I haven't found them in this recording.
Is it due to the violoncello da spalla or to Kuijken's interpretation vision, I couldn't say. Maybe a recording of the Suites requires a longer and deeper personal experience? After all, Kuijken plays this instrument for only 4 years, according to the booklet, and being basically a violin player, then an active conductor, perhaps his personal experience of performing the Suites, despite his tremendous talent, was too fresh to already record them?
Other opinions? |
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Kevin Sterling wrote (March 14, 2009):
[To Yoël L. Arbeitman] Another stunning recording of the Bach Viola Da Gamba Sonatas is the one that comes as part of the Brilliant Classics complete Bach set and originally on Meridian: John Dornenburg (Gamba) and Malcolm Proud (Harpsichord). This disc offers as a bonus a gorgeous solo performance by Proud of the Prelude & Fugue in A Minor BWV 894, played before the third sonata. I think the balance between the 2 instruments in this recording is ideal. The perfo play the music in long, clean lines, with beautiful feeling, articulation, and tone. Perhaps this recording has been discussed here before, but I haven’t noticed it. It is well worth seeking out. |
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Harry W. Crosby wrote (March 14, 2009):
Since several have put forward suggestions and preferences for various performances of the gamba/harpsichord sonatas, BWV 1027-1029, I would like to see that of Jonathan Manson and Trevor Pinnock added.
I also have Quintana/Frisch and have had others, but I find this rather recent Manson/Pinnock the most satisfying, a strong, solid performance, and note please, I said "solid," not "stolid;" these guys can frisk when the master calls.
I have heard transcriptions of these works for several other instruments, some more nimble than the gamba, but none strikes me as having the strong, appealing character of well-played gamba/ harpsichord performances. Someone noted that Bach may not have had that instrument in mind when first composing these works, but so far no competing idea has convinced me.
Harry, often old hat . . . |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (March 15, 2009):
http://passacaille.blogspot.com/2009/03/jsbach-cello-suites.html
I listened to it this weekend, and find it convincing and beautiful. It sounds like a viola with extra bass, comfortably extended downward, instead of like a cello straining upward (especially important in suite #6). |
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Continue on Part 3 |
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